How they come up with the back story of clay in the first place?

[Agent Z]

In Azzarello's run? Hippolyta isn't smashed to pieces; when we last see her in that run, she's walking and talking (albeit in stone form). Zeus, on the other end, looked like he wouldn't be walking or talking for some time yet. Crawling and bawling, more like.



Yes, and what a nice spotlight it has been, especially for the male Olympians. Of the 8 male Olympians who formerly held thrones, three (Apollo, Hades and Ares) are apparently dead (and one of those has been replaced by a woman), one is an infant, and one has been soundly defeated by his niece. And the king's daughter is now also his father. This all should change the family dynamics in favor of the goddesses.

The mother's line, on the other hand, while not getting as much focus, has been shown the way to reform and greater strength.

>Her father's blood is what allows her to claim the new title and enter Olympus.

But without having been raised by her mother and the whole maternal side of her family, she might have been corrupted by her father's blood as most of her relatives on that side were. And without her mother's side of the family (yes, including her Amazons brothers) to hold Paradise Island, the First Born's army might have proved unstoppable.

The Olympians still get more spotlight and more development than the Amazons who are used as props for Diana. The Olympians are allowed to be characters, the Amazons are plot devices or background. We know almost nothing about them and most of their good qualities are told not shown. I'v said it before and I'll say it again; Azzarello just leaving the development to the next writers was, imo, lazy writing.

[Mad Love]

The Olympians still get more spotlight and more development than the Amazons who are used as props for Diana. The Olympians are allowed to be characters, the Amazons are plot devices or background. We know almost nothing about them and most of their good qualities are told not shown. I'v said it before and I'll say it again; Azzarello just leaving the development to the next writers was, imo, lazy writing.

The Olympians were used as plot devices. The story centered around them so of course they would get more focus. Not every story has to be dedicated to the Amazons. Just because Azzarello didn't focus on characters you prefer doesn't make it writing lazy. Azzarello told the story he wanted to tell. He isn't responsible for elaborating on every corner of WW's mythos. That's why comics are serialized and have many writers. It makes no sense to expect a story or writer to cover everything about a character's world.

[borntohula]

The Olympians were used as plot devices. The story centered around them so of course they would get more focus. Not every story has to be dedicated to the Amazons. Just because Azzarello didn't focus on characters you prefer doesn't make it writing lazy. Azzarello told the story he wanted to tell. He isn't responsible for elaborating on every corner of WW's mythos. That's why comics are serialized and have many writers. It makes no sense to expect a story or writer to cover everything about a character's world.

Also how he wanted to tell it. For example using the amazon myth as a metaphor for tradition (on why they see men as inferior.), or showing Diana's focus on good when it came to Cassandra, saying she wants to give Cassandra a chance to better herself instead of weighing in on her past.

Also when Diana leaves the battle of Themyscira, the reader is in the dark as much as Diana is. And then when First born proposes that he's winning, Strife's "Bull-sh!t" hits home much better than it would if one would be in the know. At least IMO it does.

[Agent Z]

The Olympians were used as plot devices. The story centered around them so of course they would get more focus. Not every story has to be dedicated to the Amazons. Just because Azzarello didn't focus on characters you prefer doesn't make it writing lazy. Azzarello told the story he wanted to tell. He isn't responsible for elaborating on every corner of WW's mythos. That's why comics are serialized and have many writers. It makes no sense to expect a story or writer to cover everything about a character's world.

I'm not asking for every story to be dedicated to the Amazons. But given the revelations that we are shown about them, I think more spotlight should have been given to properly explore them. Furthermore, since this was introducing Diana to a new audience I don't think it's unreasonable that only one aspect of the character's world is explored. Yes, that's the story Azzarello wanted to tell but that doesn't mean I have to think it's good.

[Mad Love]

I'm not asking for every story to be dedicated to the Amazons. But given the revelations that we are shown about them, I think more spotlight should have been given to properly explore them. Furthermore, since this was introducing Diana to a new audience I don't think it's unreasonable that only one aspect of the character's world is explored. Yes, that's the story Azzarello wanted to tell but that doesn't mean I have to think it's good.

It's not necessary if it didn't progress the story he wanted to tell. Introductions aren't complete. That's why they're introductions. So it is reasonable to write an introductory story around one aspect, even though a lot was actually touched on. True, you don't have to think it was good but it doesn't mean that opinion is justified.

[Herowatcher]

Martson believed in feminism. I think he did the clay origin so Diana would be free of any male influence
and she’d be a more innocent messenger of peace and equality.
IMO, why would you go against what the creator intended.

Her original origin does mention Pygmalion and Galatea.
Seeing this we all knew Diana was going to be the strongest Amazon.

[Redwing]

Martson believed in feminism. I think he did the clay origin so Diana would be free of any male influence
and she’d be a more innocent messenger of peace and equality.
IMO, why would you go against what the creator intended.

Her original origin does mention Pygmalion and Galatea.
Seeing this we all knew Diana was going to be the strongest Amazon.

feminism doesn't mean "totally free of male influence"...this was my problem with Marston and his theories he pushed forward with WW. Instead of equality, he kind of was suggesting superiority.

I mean, look at even what you might be suggesting about her being a more innocent messenger of peace and equality because she's free of any male influence. Why does it have to be one gender over another?

And after 70 or so years, you may do something different from what the creator intended if it's outdated and not complex enough for today's reader.

[Redwing]

A story that didn't need that change at all. WW can be the defender of the rightful heir to the throne without being a demigod: gods would fight her like they did and strike Themyscira like they did to punish her insolence. WW would form an alliance of demigods like she did, not because she is related to them, but because that would be the smartest thing to do. She didn't need olympian blood to receive the GoW mantle.
No need at all.

As far as the story goes she did need Olympian blood. How would she obtain the mantle of godhood without being an Olympian?

Plus, for me, making her a part of the Olympian family makes her interactions and relations with them far more personal and dramatic. She's part of a family that is all powerful and corrupt in many ways but she rises above them despite their blood in her veins

[Silvanus]

feminism doesn't mean "totally free of male influence"...this was my problem with Marston and his theories he pushed forward with WW. Instead of equality, he kind of was suggesting superiority.

Yeah, and I think that was something that timely, healthy and very cool in 1941. As Jill Lepore points in the The Secret History of Wonder Woman, there were other female superiority fictions that were popular in the decades before Marston wrote; I think it was a constructive imaginative reaction to the reality of male "superiority" in social hierarchies. I agree with you, though, that this version of feminism doesn't seem very up-to-date today; I think most feminists would now say it's a bad thing to hold women up as naturally superior in morality or "innocence," because that just reinforcfes gender roles that say women should be "innocent" and men should be too active and powerful to be innocent, and it sets women up to look "unnatural" if they don't meet an inhumanly high standard.

And after 70 or so years, you may do something different from what the creator intended if it's outdated and not complex enough for today's reader.

Exactly!

[Hawk80]

They did something different and ruined the character, not beacuse it was different, but because was bad and wrong. Now please reboot.

[Silvanus]

They did something different and ruined the character, not beacuse it was different, but because was bad and wrong. Now please reboot.

Not just because it was different? So, for you, there would have been a way of doing something different from the clay birth that would not have been "bad and wrong"

[AmiMizuno]

The problem is that Azz's run is more Male influence and that the females are bad and the males are mainly good. Hippoltya and the amazons are the bad influence. Diaan was a product of the best of what her place had to offer and now it's a turn for the worst. raids , mankillers. I'm not saying the amazons should be perfect but they are flanderized for the story. In fact I don't think you can save them. So Azz's run also has it's problem. Females are bad and the males are good. Balance. The amazons are just really flanderized. I mean to me you can balance it out. The amazons should not be flanderized for the story. They could be manhaters some of them and some hate being on Paradise Island but just to have these amazons are bad. We know nothing of why.
bais

I know for example why not have the no men's rule be not because of they are bias but due to the amazons fault. The Island is dangerous to the men due to the doom gate taking the amazons angry and twisting it. When a few men did come wash up on the Island many were scared but a few talked and even fall in loved but at time passed the men became monsters and sadly the amazons had to kill them causing the amazons to kill them since they could not change them back. The amazons saddens once again made the doom gate change it and now any man coming on the Island by nightfall will become monsters due to a mistake the amazons did not know. For that and other reasons they try to cover up the guilt by living in Paradise Island.

[Silvanus]

The problem is that Azz's run is more Male influence and that the females are bad and the males are mainly good.

The males aren't "mainly good." Zeus abandoned Wonder Woman, leaving Hippolyta to raise her alone. Zeus also ripped his first born son from the mother's arms and tried to have him killed. Hades tried to extort love from Wonder Woman using her own lasso on the marriage altar--not to mention what he did to Perspehone. Even Ares, though he has his good points, tried to teach Diana to be merciless; he only accidentally modeled mercy for her, and only because she inspired him to.

Early on in Azz's run, she had mostly male allies, but by the end, she's got Zola, Hera, Siracca, Artemis, Demeter, Aprodite, Athena, Dessa and Aleka, not to mention all the rest of the Amazons following her.

They could be manhaters some of them and some hate being on Paradise Island but just to have these amazons are bad. We know nothing of why

We know more now about what their problem with men has been.. According to Divergence #1, the FCBD book, spoilers:

they were crated by the goddesses with a mission of peace, but their male neighbors wouldn't let them live in peace, and ultiamtely, after they defeated Hercules and his men, they retreated from the world.

end of spoilers

[AmiMizuno]

They probably only did that to stop the hate from fans.Also the amazons did not follow up until now. The finches show that clear and The finches will have to make it clear they this is why the amazons the way they are. Well when I mean the men are good is that they influences are many positives in affecting Diana. For example Zeus powers is why she is strong. Ares training seems to have a more impact on Diana. Clearly Ares is the reason why she is the way she is not the amazons. SO the amazons did not teach her mercy. In a way this really shows more Male influences. Azz's run has the men be more of an impact to Diana's characters than the females. Ares taught her compassion and mercy without meaning to the amazons did not. So why bother. The amazons betrayed her. So the amazons are still the bad guys

[AmiMizuno]

We know more now about what their problem with men has been.. According to Divergence #1, the FCBD book, spoilers:

they were crated by the goddesses with a mission of peace, but their male neighbors wouldn't let them live in peace, and ultiamtely, after they defeated Hercules and his men, they retreated from the world.

end of spoilers[/QUOTE]

But it still gives no reasons to do the raids. I really don't care because someone should have done it early Dc is trying to fix a problem it's really a poor excuse due to the simple fact to much damage has been done to save their characters. They are trying to cover their butts with this half excuse. The damage is to late to fix. THey could have and should have done it sooner. This still might explain some but very little to the bigger problem at hand