Convergence: Superman #1 Spoilers/Discussion

[Flash Gordon]

Calling a group of crooks losers (not particularly mean coming from any other hero, but that's not a Superman line), complaining about having to "play the role of normal civilian" (even as a guy who prefers Superman as the real identity, that's weirdly detached and borderline condescending), needing to "wait a minute" to find out about the force that captured entire cities to spend some time with Lois when it's clarified they've had more time together recently than ever before (which would be perfectly acceptable if he was worried or thinking he might not have much time left with her, but his reaction seems to be more along the lines of "hey, Superman's back! Let's take a sec to chillax Lois"), and his little "you must be less than nothing" line to Captain Thunder.

Those are all a little too nitpicky to be particularly bad alone, or even collectively a gamebreaker, but when paired with Jurgens' Big Guy Super-Dude take on the character that left all the other moments too generic to have anything approaching real character from him, this wasn't any kind of take on the Superman I grew up with I felt I had any reason to care about besides wearing a better costume than the current model. I do hope everyone else enjoyed it.

I'll take your word for it and skip out on this one. I really didn't want to spend any money on Convergence, cept for Rucka's book. The preview for this bothered me for some reason.

Bought the zero issue and thought it was diluting Brainiac as a character too much.

[Cypher]

Calling a group of crooks losers (not particularly mean coming from any other hero, but that's not a Superman line), complaining about having to "play the role of normal civilian" (even as a guy who prefers Superman as the real identity, that's weirdly detached and borderline condescending), needing to "wait a minute" to find out about the force that captured entire cities to spend some time with Lois when it's clarified they've had more time together recently than ever before (which would be perfectly acceptable if he was worried or thinking he might not have much time left with her, but his reaction seems to be more along the lines of "hey, Superman's back! Let's take a sec to chillax Lois"), and his little "you must be less than nothing" line to Captain Thunder.

Those are all a little too nitpicky to be particularly bad alone, or even collectively a gamebreaker, but when paired with Jurgens' Big Guy Super-Dude take on the character that left all the other moments too generic to have anything approaching real character from him, this wasn't any kind of take on the Superman I grew up with I felt I had any reason to care about besides wearing a better costume than the current model. I do hope everyone else enjoyed it.

1) They are losers
2) Superman was always like this after PC since Bryne. You just havent read any Superman stories to know this is what Post Crisis Superman was like.

Here's Loise Siminson writing him





Kesel



Theres lots more examples from Roger Stern to Dan Jurgans and Bryne.



Lots of people enjoyed this book today. And so did many people at the time he was portrayed like this so much so Superman was at the top sales at DC. Before he became the thing he was later down the line in the 00s. Sure hes a little more stern for justice and the cause, but hes still a complete gentleman.

Also in terms of the civilian line, its Superman. He likes being proactive and handling business. Probably felt helpless unable to be Superman, especially when he's been Superman. He said he likes it voluntarily when he needs to be Clark, since he cant be Superman 24/7. Superman should be proactive.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I'll take your word for it and skip out on this one. I really didn't want to spend any money on Convergence, cept for Rucka's book. The preview for this bothered me for some reason.

Rucka's book is good. Definitely worth your time and money.

1) They are losers

That doesn't mean it's an in-character moment for Superman to say that.

2) Superman was always like this after PC during the Bryneboot. You just havent read any Superman stories to know this is what Post Crisis Superman was like.

I've read a fair number of those comics, and that was how he acted in that period. I don't like it, but if this was the Superman book for the 90s/second week of Convergence, it would have fit just fine. But this isn't really recognizable as Superman for about a decade or so before the reboot.

[Cypher]

Well its alright to not like it, but to say hes being out of character is a bit much.

No one really likes Superman of the last decade, hence why it was ignored now. And more people seem to be happy about that.

[BBally]

Well its alright to not like it, but to say hes being out of character is a bit much.

No one really likes Superman of the last decade, hence why it was ignored now. And more people seem to be happy about that.

The fact the info referenced events like New Krypton, it don't think the 2000's are being ignored.

[Cypher]

The fact the info referenced events like New Krypton, it don't think the 2000's are being ignored.

Yeah I know about that, I meant in terms of portrayals of characters in this issue and the next.

[BBally]

Yeah I know about that, I meant in terms of portrayals of characters in this issue and the next.

And I need to make a correction to your comment, there are a lot of people who liked how Superman was portrayed in Kurt Busiek's run that took place in that decade, in my opinion Busiek has written the best Post Crisis Superman as a character.

[Cypher]

Some of the stories were good no doubt. I definitely like some of the stories, so its not all bad.

But that portrayal of 00 Superman was an all time low for the character and not as successful. And in many ways led to some of the recent problems with New52 and misconceptions. There was also a collective groan when reading about New Krypton in the info page.

[K. Jones]

This was one of the better ones this week. I found myself pretty pleasantly surprised by a lot of issues today (I knew The Question would blow the doors off, but the rest? Eh ...).

I'm not one who can even separate the different timeline Prime-Supermen in my head. It's always the same guy for me. If COIE, ZH and FP Superman all walk into a room and then N52 Supes shows up, to me it's just like a Three Doctors episode. It's just Troughton and Baker and McCoy interacting. The chronology works the same in my mind, too - somehow Superman escaped this noise and rebooted, and he'll almost sorta remember when his timelines got crossed. A key feature of Hypertime.

But I definitely missed this guy. New 52 vacillates between seeming like the old experienced veteran and some young brash version. I like the social crusader stuff a lot, and the brash kind of machoness. I don't miss the boy scout, but I do miss the just supreme sci-fi competency. And yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing vintage Supes just punch out the entire Flashpoint League.

The weird thing about giving up the pre-FP pinnacle versions of characters is that it was a timeline that incorporated the Golden, Silver and Bronze ages. IC essentially brought back their entire timelines, but only because in the years since ZH or even COIE, everyone had already brought back all the original cool stuff anyway. So thinking about how this is a guy I KNOW FOR A FACT has faced a secret invasion from Apokolips in the 70s, and been to the One Million future in the 90s and has dealt with a New Krypton situation in the 00s, and the sequence and how it affected his friends ... is pleasant. Even though I sort of just assume that N52 Superman did all those things too, ever-so-slightly-differently.

Anyway fun. Jurgens can always be counted on to write some solid Lois & Clark. He had a good voice for the Flashpoint characters, especially Flashpoint Kal-El who is weird and kind of creepy but he's effing Superman, I don't expect he'll turn out to be a bad egg. You could tell from old Tom Wayne Batman that our Superman and he'll hash it out pretty quick.

Plus Jimmy has the Whiz Wagon and gets into cosmic trouble with it that Superman's gonna have to bail him out from. Vintage win.

[The World]

In retrospect I can kind of see why Post-Crisis Superman went sour eventually. His one real plot point through the years was tied up, would he ever marry Lois Lane which he did. People say he needed a kid but we kind of got that and in the end it wasn't as exciting as people probably thought it would be. His life was good and sort of at that stage where you sort of expect to close the book in a normal story, but instead it went on for years after that. He needed ideas to chase after he married Lois but he never really got one imo. This is kind of thing with N52 Superman he doesn't really have any dreams to chase after he's just doing what he does because Superman is suppose to, he needs a genuine goal to reach for that isn't a romantic subplot.

[Jeremiah]

And I need to make a correction to your comment, there are a lot of people who liked how Superman was portrayed in Kurt Busiek's run that took place in that decade, in my opinion Busiek has written the best Post Crisis Superman as a character.

Busiek's run was mind-numbingly boring. It was all plot, no character. He never hooked me into the story. It was like watching a series of events from a distance. Or like watching TV with the sound off.

[Jeremiah]

Anyway, I really like the issue. It was nice to see the Jurgens Superman and Lois back. Prof. Hamilton was a pleasant surprise.

Weeks art was great.

I really hope Superman shines over the Flashpoint characters in the next issue. His name is on the title, Thomas Wayne doesn't need to save the day, nor anyone else.

[Kuwagaton]

Wow, someone agrees with me. Yeah I just expected much better from Busiek, he's nailed everything I've read from him that was even roughly similar. But it was flat and I was uncomfortable reading his limp Superman.

I had a good laugh at Jimmy showing up in the Whiz Wagon like a total idiot.

[adkal]

And I wasn't expecting either Lois or Clark to die at all before, but after that "one moment" bit

That moment was odd for me, too, but I excused it as a sort of 'overlap' as he readjusted to having his powers back. Since he didn't scan the city straight away, I figured certain abilities hadn't kicked in yet...

(one of the several really oddly out-of-character moments in here--as in, all the character moments pertaining to Superman when he wasn't just being gruffly righteous)

Where was he like that?

Oh, and Weeks was good.

Indeed.

Calling a group of crooks losers (not particularly mean coming from any other hero, but that's not a Superman line),

Nah, he's said things like that dozens of times over the years, from year one onwards.

complaining about having to "play the role of normal civilian" (even as a guy who prefers Superman as the real identity, that's weirdly detached and borderline condescending),

The complaint was more about the forced position rather than the position itself, though, from what I understood it.

needing to "wait a minute" to find out about the force that captured entire cities to spend some time with Lois when it's clarified they've had more time together recently than ever before (which would be perfectly acceptable if he was worried or thinking he might not have much time left with her, but his reaction seems to be more along the lines of "hey, Superman's back! Let's take a sec to chillax Lois"),

As above, I don't think all his abilities were back, and he likely needed to check and realign.

and his little "you must be less than nothing" line to Captain Thunder.

Combat banter. He's done it from day one.

Captain Thunder said that Superman was 'nothing' and that it was a waste of time worrying about him, and Superman basically threw that back at him.

[maxmcco]

Love me some Superman vs. Shazam. But anyone notice how Supes was about to call Captain Thunder Shazam? Pre-Flashpoint, his name was Captain Marvel. Unless he thought it was Freddy.