Batman vs. Superman Trailers and Clips

[Coal Tiger]

Other than The Dark Knight Returns what are those stories?

Dark Knight Strikes again, Hush, the World's Finest cartoon. Sure, there have been comics where be beats up Batman like the pre-Infinite Crisis "Sacrifice" story, but he always gets treated like a monster afterwards.

And it is not just power level but his whole character. Superman is just plain better than Batman at everything.

And that's why it's more interesting when Batman comes out on top. Everything goes back to David and Goliath.

[Coal Tiger]

I'm sure there are a lot of people who like a bit of irony in their movies, e.g. the mere mortal beats the god-like being, but I think sometimes it's just painful overkill. Sometimes, you just have to go with the obvious outcome. Of course I'm biased, but I feel like if you get too cutesy with the irony, it just becomes mind-numbingly awful.

Anyway, this thread has unintentionally indicated why Superman fans often point out that Superman really has so little to gain, and so much to lose, if he fights Batman. Again, if Batman loses, you can always say of course he would lose, because he's fighting a god-like being. We haven't covered every single possibility, but I think in almost every scenario you can come up with, Superman is going to look bad if they engage in a real fight, which is why a lot of us Superman fans want either no fight at all, or something that amounts to much less than a true knockdown, drag-out fight. Earlier, I praised the fight Loeb and Lee depicted in "Hush," but it did have a big problem: Superman was mind-controlled, and he fought as a pawn for a villain. Short of these kind of mind-control stories, Superman is going to gravitate toward looking like a bully, or looking incompetent. If you want to make a movie that's being marketed as a big fight between Superman and Batman (gosh, it's in the title!), and you want both heroes to come out looking like the heroes we know them to be, you have to traverse a minefield of bad creative decisions. It's doable, but it's hard, and most of the time (if not all of the time) you have to pay a toll to get there.

I believe Snyder and company can do it, but it's a tall task, and if they accomplish something that makes most of us reasonably happy, I'll be highly impressed. However, if a lot of us end up feeling dissatisfied, my response will be one of little shock.

The point that I've been trying to make but I keep circling around without getting to it, is that they shouldn't fight at all. The premise of the movie is inherently flawed. Upon an initial meeting, maybe they should be distrustful of each other, but that should be the extent of their conflict. To be fighting each other when Lex Luthor exists makes both of them look bad. With all of Snyder's allusions to DKR, I'm afraid that he misunderstands that comic in the same way he had no idea what Watchmen was about (and no, that's not an insult, it's a fact. If every character is doing bone-breaking kung-fu then Rorschach's violence is meaningless.)

[DochaDocha]

The point that I've been trying to make but I keep circling around without getting to it, is that they shouldn't fight at all. The premise of the movie is inherently flawed. Upon an initial meeting, maybe they should be distrustful of each other, but that should be the extent of their conflict. To be fighting each other when Lex Luthor exists makes both of them look bad. With all of Snyder's allusions to DKR, I'm afraid that he misunderstands that comic in the same way he had no idea what Watchmen was about (and no, that's not an insult, it's a fact. If every character is doing bone-breaking kung-fu then Rorschach's violence is meaningless.)

Fair points across the board.

Everything goes back to David and Goliath.

I think people like David vs. Goliath not only because it's more interesting if the underdog wins, but also because in stories such as that or the "Tortoise and the Hare," the "favorite" (using sports parlance) is so obviously the bad guy. Batman vs. Superman, on the other hand, is supposed to be morally righteous dude vs. god-like, morally righteous dude. You stop rooting for the underdog if he's a jerk, and you just think "That's what you get!" when he finally gets his comeuppance. Think of the Troll in the "Three Billy Goats Gruff." You want to see the Troll get his butt kicked by the older, physically superior Billy Goat Brother! Not saying Batman is a troll...

[Sacred Knight]

To me what's most interesting is when Superman should come out on top but stays his hand because he knows Batman is a good man. Batman beating him just because he's the underdog isn't automatically more interesting. In fact more often than not its contrived and ridiculous because its handled so poorly.

[Coal Tiger]

Fair points across the board.



I think people like David vs. Goliath not only because it's more interesting if the underdog wins, but also because in stories such as that or the "Tortoise and the Hare," the "favorite" (using sports parlance) is so obviously the bad guy. Batman vs. Superman, on the other hand, is supposed to be morally righteous dude vs. god-like, morally righteous dude. You stop rooting for the underdog if he's a jerk, and you just think "That's what you get!" when he finally gets his comeuppance. Think of the Troll in the "Three Billy Goats Gruff." You want to see the Troll get his butt kicked by the older, physically superior Billy Goat Brother! Not saying Batman is a troll...

It all depends on how they choose to portray Batman. Making an audience dislike Batman is gonna be a hard thing to do after years and years of Batman being this insanely popular media icon. Right out of the gate the movie is gonna have a huge tone problem.

[Vanguard-01]

And that's why it's more interesting when Batman comes out on top. Everything goes back to David and Goliath.

Crucial difference? People love David and Goliath because David was the good guy and Goliath was a monster. If Goliath was the good guy in that story, people would've wanted to see him crush David. Power difference be damned.

Batman always gets to be the "good guy" when he and Clark fight. That's the only reason why he gets to win so often. This angers Superman fans and it makes their encounters boring and repetitive.

[DochaDocha]

It all depends on how they choose to portray Batman. Making an audience dislike Batman is gonna be a hard thing to do after years and years of Batman being this insanely popular media icon. Right out of the gate the movie is gonna have a huge tone problem.

Heh, I didn't mean to imply that Batman should be the "bad guy" in the upcoming movie (though that would almost be novel...), just that both Superman and Batman are good guys. It's easy to root for the underdog when he's undoubtedly the good guy. If Iron Man is using a faulty arc reactor, and Iron Monger is "more advanced in every way," rooting for Iron Man is the obvious choice for the audience. In contrast, would the audience want or expect an unarmed Tony Stark to beat a fully-enraged Hulk? I'm inclined to think no, and a lot of eyes would be rolling if it happened.

[Robotman]

I think they're going to do something similar to the Batman vs Superman fight in New Frontier. In that story Supes threw the fight to allow Batman to escape government pursuit so he can continue to be a lone vigilante. In BvS I can definitely see Superman let Bats win so people will stop worshipping him and believing that he's an all powerful alien god. If the world sees a mere human can defeat him it will show the world that he's not as big a threat as people think and that he's just here to help.
Of course he's gonna hand Batman his ass before he decides to lose.

[adkal]

As an aside, I still find it amusing that it's Scar giving Bruce advice.

heh

[Auguste Dupin]

As an aside, I still find it amusing that it's Scar giving Bruce advice.

heh

"And don't forget my most important advice, Bruce.
....
(suddenly starts singing) BE PREPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARED!"

[Lokimaru]

Dark Knight Strikes again, Hush, the World's Finest cartoon. Sure, there have been comics where be beats up Batman like the pre-Infinite Crisis "Sacrifice" story, but he always gets treated like a monster afterwards.



And that's why it's more interesting when Batman comes out on top. Everything goes back to David and Goliath.

Not if it's Batman that's in the wrong.

[Lokimaru]

And then you're left with the message that the dumb jock always wins. You can imagine how well that would go over with the target audience, right?

Aren't most of the Villians in DC Nerds and Geeks with power-ups and/or superiority complexes?

[Punisher007]

The tone of this teaser, to me at least, paints Superman as the misunderstood sympathetic figure who many people distrust/hate simply BECAUSE he's "different," or is "too powerful." Poor Superman, trying to do the right thing while so many people complain about you for no good reason. Oh and there's a crazy, paranoid billionaire in a Bat-suit also gunning for you. So again, explain to me how Batman DOESN'T come across as the ANTAGONIST here, because I'm not seeing it.

It'd be interesting if Batman is actually testing Superman in some way. Someone pointed out to me that one of the shots with Batman looks like it might be taking place in the same train station where Superman killed Zod. So maybe that's the game for him. "Ok, if you're the hero that you seem to be, then prove it to me." And having it take place in the same spot where Superman had to make such a horrifying choice before is just a little of psychology pressure.

[Agent Z]

Aren't most of the Villians in DC Nerds and Geeks with power-ups and/or superiority complexes?

Not really. You've got Metallo who's basically a thug with Terminator powers, Parasite, Darkseid, Sinestro, Ares, Circe, Superboy Prime, Black Manta, etc. The only villains whom I think fit that description are Lex Luthor and a chunk of Batman's rogues gallery.

[manofsteel1979]

I think they're going to do something similar to the Batman vs Superman fight in New Frontier. In that story Supes threw the fight to allow Batman to escape government pursuit so he can continue to be a lone vigilante. In BvS I can definitely see Superman let Bats win so people will stop worshipping him and believing that he's an all powerful alien god. If the world sees a mere human can defeat him it will show the world that he's not as big a threat as people think and that he's just here to help.
Of course he's gonna hand Batman his ass before he decides to lose.

This. The foreshadowing in the trailer was so thick, that I will be shocked if this isn't how the conflict resolves itself.