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  1. #106
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy View Post
    I love that idea. Diana is the ambassador of peace after all. If anyone could stop the fight and convice the two to work together, it would be her.
    Personally, I want to see Diana separate Bruce and Clark like a couple of squabbling children. Then I want to see her basically point them in the direction of the real villain of the movie and take off after the villain without them. The idea of Clark and Bruce having to pretty much follow Diana into battle would be hilarious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    I want to see Superman portrayed as impressively as he's supposed to be, but at the same time I acknowledge that it's Batman's movie as well. Thus I can't reasonably expect Superman to be the only one who is impressive during their clash, such is the curse of having a co-star.
    Yes.

    I'll always be more of a Superman fan than a Batman fan, but Batman's fans deserve to see their character treated just as well as Superman's fans do.

    The conflict can't just be Superman, laughing arrogantly as Batman completely fails to do anything relevant against him. For one encounter? That would be kind of funny. But the whole story can't be like that.

    I want to see Batman get his impressive moments against Superman. I just don't want to see 1.) Batman's capabilities exaggerated, 2.) Superman's capabilities downgraded, or 3.) both of these.

    Batman can hurt Superman, but I want it to be something believable. If Kryptonite is going to come into play? Fine and dandy. Sonic weapons? Very effective. Electricity? It better be a whole LOT of it, but okay. Since Dark Universe is going to be part of the DCCU? Saying that Batman has a few magical weapons would be acceptable as well.

    What I don't want to see is Batman inexplicably beating Superman up with his superior fighting skills and somehow doing damage, despite being a mortal man punching a bulletproof alien.

    Both characters deserve to look good.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  2. #107
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Well, it was only a matter of time before the parodies came rolling in. I imagine there are a lot of fans who'd rather see this fake movie instead:


  3. #108
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    Cool trailer edit.

    That retro version of the trailer doesnt even work with Christopher Reeve. Because Christopher Reeve Superman comes off as friendly, sociable, confident, knows what needs to be done, and as a friend. Rather than a mute guy who doesnt say much. Pretty cool how timeless Christopher Reeve looks. And Adam West is a dashing Bruce.

  4. #109
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Regarding who looks good in a Batman vs. Superman fight, one must remember that it's an unbalanced fight to begin with, like a heavyweight champ boxer vs. a freshman in high school. The champ looks bad if he doesn't dominate it. On the other hand, if the freshman loses, he ends up looking good if he doesn't get utterly destroyed. I think some writers have figured that a draw makes both guys look equally good, but really that's not the case. Unless there's an element of surprise, such as Batman discovers Kryptonite and Superman had no idea such a thing existed, then a draw is a win for Batman. Also, even if you used Kryptonite, then you create the mindset that, "All Batman needs is a rock and Superman loses." Sure, you can say, "All Superman needs is a nuke and Batman loses," but you rarely see that kind of argument unless it's a Superman fan on the defensive. As such, the only time I ever saw a Batman vs. Superman fight that actually highlighted the strengths of both characters was in "Hush," and it only worked because Loeb made sure to include monologues showing that Batman said this this fight should've been over in a heartbeat, in Superman's favor, but Superman had enough resistance against Poison Ivy's mind control that it gave Batman enough opportunity to snap Superman out of it. Still despite all the plain-as-day text pointing out why the fight lasted that long, some people still say Batman beat Superman decisively. It really goes to show Superman can't really win without looking like a bully, or Batman's looking like a petulant and stubborn fool.

    There really are two poles near which any Superman vs. Batman fight ends up: Batman is helpless, or Superman is an idiot. Obviously, I prefer Superman, so I'd rather they leaned on the Batman is helpless side, but even if I weren't, at least I could always excuse Batman and say there's nothing he could've done. Like Batman once said, Superman is lightning and thunder, it's not something a man can fight against. On the other hand, once Superman looks stupid, the character is crippled forever. Batman doesn't necessarily look less cool if he can't fight against Superman, but Superman does lose any street credit if he can't overcome a man with a rock.

    The moral of the story, then, if you want both guys to look as alpha as possible then you simply don't make them fight. However, they're going to, which tells to me that nobody involved in making this movie really cares if one character's "cool factor" takes a big blow.

  5. #110
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
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    Superman needs to win decisively as in he destroys every piece of hardware in Batman's arsenal and just when about to finish the Batman something else comes to his attention and he's forced to leave.

  6. #111
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    Superman needs to win decisively as in he destroys every piece of hardware in Batman's arsenal and just when about to finish the Batman something else comes to his attention and he's forced to leave.
    Or, y'know, he doesn't finish Batman because he's not the crazy false god he's mistaken to be by some in universe and has the morality to not murder helpless opponents, making it a physical and a moral victory for the Superguy and allowing Batman to realizze they are not ennemies, leading to the future formation of the Justice League.
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
    Bear the weight on your shoulders
    Stand firm. Take the pain.

  7. #112
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    Or you know, the fight ISN'T completely one-sided because:

    A. That's really boring/uncreative.
    B. It defeats the entire premise.
    c. BOTH characters have LOTS of fans, so you don't want to tick off a big chunk of your audience.

    Besides, there's a reason why Superman's greatest enemy is just a human. A super-smart, super-rich human with nearly unlimited resources. So essentially, Batman is "good" Lex Luthor, only with tactical brilliance, extreme mental discipline, and martial arts training added in.

  8. #113
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Or you know, the fight ISN'T completely one-sided because:

    A. That's really boring/uncreative.
    B. It defeats the entire premise.
    c. BOTH characters have LOTS of fans, so you don't want to tick off a big chunk of your audience.

    Besides, there's a reason why Superman's greatest enemy is just a human. A super-smart, super-rich human with nearly unlimited resources. So essentially, Batman is "good" Lex Luthor, only with tactical brilliance, extreme mental discipline, and martial arts training added in.
    Even though I totally buy into the logic that Luthor can beat Superman, and Batman is similarly-equipped to fight Superman as Luthor is, I think the big difference is that Luthor is a criminal and will stop at nothing. Batman's a hero, and so while fans and writers say he'll cheat in a fight, Batman still has boundaries. Luthor's ability to beat Superman is because he has all the resources a mortal man would need, but he also is amoral enough that he'll blow up half the world if it means getting what he wants. Batman wouldn't go that far, which is why I always thought that scene in Superman/Batman when he threatened to nuke all of Apokolips was a bluff that Darkseid badly misread.

    Still, I'll settle for this rock-paper-scissors scenario:

    - Superman beats Batman because duh!
    - Lex beats Superman using his hatred, need to be number one, vast resources, and willingness to destroy everything that Superman and other heroes swear to protect
    - Batman beats Lex because he's Batman!

  9. #114
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    No side is gonna be happy with how the BM vs Sup fight turns out.
    Thank you AMericA for votinG for chAnge.

  10. #115
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Fighting Batman is always a lose-lose for Superman, because if he wins, he's a god beating on a normal person, and if he loses, he just got beat by a normal person.

    One would hope they treat it like the World's Finest episodes of the animated series and they just have an initial conflict where they size each other up and at some point decide that the other one is cool. Then they fight Luthor.

  11. #116
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Tiger View Post
    Fighting Batman is always a lose-lose for Superman, because if he wins, he's a god beating on a normal person, and if he loses, he just got beat by a normal person.

    One would hope they treat it like the World's Finest episodes of the animated series and they just have an initial conflict where they size each other up and at some point decide that the other one is cool. Then they fight Luthor.
    That would definitely be the best-case scenario.

    Sadly, I doubt they'll go that way. They're hyping up the confrontation far too much. People are going to come into this movie expecting some kind of epic throwdown. If it ends up just being basically a slap fight for a couple scenes, I think a lot of people will feel ripped off.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  12. #117
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    I kind of hope that it's more of a psychological/philosophical conflict myself. Like these are VERY different men with VERY different ways of doing thing, and that's where the main conflict comes from. The physical confrontation, as much as there is, is just icing on the cake.

  13. #118
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Or, y'know, he doesn't finish Batman because he's not the crazy false god he's mistaken to be by some in universe and has the morality to not murder helpless opponents, making it a physical and a moral victory for the Superguy and allowing Batman to realizze they are not ennemies, leading to the future formation of the Justice League.
    By finish I didn't mean kill or maim. I meant finish in the sense of completely disabling his armor leaving him buttnaked in the middle of the street.

  14. #119
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Tiger View Post
    Fighting Batman is always a lose-lose for Superman, because if he wins, he's a god beating on a normal person, and if he loses, he just got beat by a normal person.

    One would hope they treat it like the World's Finest episodes of the animated series and they just have an initial conflict where they size each other up and at some point decide that the other one is cool. Then they fight Luthor.
    I disagree. Fighting Batman is only bad for Superman if he loses. Superman should win every time he fights Batman. When he doesn't it is pretty bad for him. It makes him look like a chump. The World's Finest is the exact wrongest way to go. Batman judo flipped Superman and made him look like a chump then seduced his love interest. The Joker made Luthor look like a chump too.

  15. #120
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    Well, the reasoning of some fans here seems legit. It could be that Snyder will turn everything about Superman's perceived mythology in the general public's eye around with this movie. That scene with the soldiers was way too on the nose, however. The purest form of DKR+Injustice.

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