Batman vs. Superman Trailers and Clips

[Punisher007]

Not really, or at least not yet. We don't know the context for it, or how Superman will react to it.

[Punisher007]

I disagree. Fighting Batman is only bad for Superman if he loses. Superman should win every time he fights Batman. When he doesn't it is pretty bad for him. It makes him look like a chump. The World's Finest is the exact wrongest way to go. Batman judo flipped Superman and made him look like a chump then seduced his love interest. The Joker made Luthor look like a chump too.

Ah yes, conveniently ignoring other facets that don't fit you argument I see. Like how that flip did NOTHING to Superman, whereas like two seconds later Superman took Bats out with one shoulder tackle (and discovered that he was Bruce Wayne to boot). Or that the Lois thing didn't work out, or how Joker is crazy unpredictable, etc. You know, when you look at the whole picture, that complaint becomes a lot less convincing, funny how that works.

Of course given how your working premise is "Superman should be better than Batman in every conceivable way, and effortlessly chump him," It's not surprising. Basically you complaining about "Batman making Superman look like a chump," while wanting that same thing to happen, only in reverse.

[Miraclo__Pill]

I'm with Coal Tiger on this one. Even semantically speaking Superman shouldn't fight Batman. Batman CAN try and have a fight with Superman and not the other way around. Superman should just entertain him long enough to reason with Bats and make him understand he's not the enemy. Anything else that involves a violent reaction from Clark just makes automatically Bruce the victor.

[DochaDocha]

I would have to agree with Francisco that "World's Finest" probably made Batman come across as a "cooler" than Superman. We could get into the nitty gritty in details, but I'll tend to that only if you really want to know. On the other hand, you could argue that the episode "Knight Time" helped balance the scales, as Batman was utterly helpless in that episode and it took the efforts of Superman and Robin to find Batman, and Superman was left alone to beat Brainiac.

[Francisco]

Ah yes, conveniently ignoring other facets that don't fit you argument I see. Like how that flip did NOTHING to Superman, whereas like two seconds later Superman took Bats out with one shoulder tackle (and discovered that he was Bruce Wayne to boot). Or that the Lois thing didn't work out, or how Joker is crazy unpredictable, etc. You know, when you look at the whole picture, that complaint becomes a lot less convincing, funny how that works.

Of course given how your working premise is "Superman should be better than Batman in every conceivable way, and effortlessly chump him," It's not surprising. Basically you complaining about "Batman making Superman look like a chump," while wanting that same thing to happen, only in reverse.

Because in reverse is logical. Superman is like a god a force of nature something so far removed from humanity that he might as well be fighting an ant when he fights Batman.

[Joe Acro]

If you can't comment without insulting the people who are involved with making the movie or without insulting the people who will go see this movie, then don't comment at all.

[Coal Tiger]

It doesn't have to be like that. You want it to be like that because you want Batman to win. Superman should defeat Batman easily not because might makes right but because he's simply more powerful than Batman. Can't you see that Superman needs to defeat Batman or his entire character would be diminished?

These are characters made of stories, not stats and power levels. It's more important for Superman to not appear to be a conquering bully than for him to win a fight because power levels say he should. To save face one could say that Batman was simply more prepared, more ruthless, had more gadgets, cheated, or maybe Superman let him win. Once we go down the path of Superman simply beating on his nonpowered enemies, he becomes less appealing to the public. If Superman is going to defeat Batman in battle it should be an ideological one. He needs to prove Batman is wrong about him. Batman's argument is that Superman is a time bomb waiting to go off and either hurt people or conquer the world, he needs to prove to Batman that he is the ideal of fairness, mercy, and he stands for truth, justice, and the American way. Blowing up the batmobile isn't gonna do that.

[Francisco]

These are characters made of stories, not stats and power levels. It's more important for Superman to not appear to be a conquering bully than for him to win a fight because power levels say he should. To save face one could say that Batman was simply more prepared, more ruthless, had more gadgets, cheated, or maybe Superman let him win. Once we go down the path of Superman simply beating on his nonpowered enemies, he becomes less appealing to the public. If Superman is going to defeat Batman in battle it should be an ideological one. He needs to prove Batman is wrong about him. Batman's argument is that Superman is a time bomb waiting to go off and either hurt people or conquer the world, he needs to prove to Batman that he is the ideal of fairness, mercy, and he stands for truth, justice, and the American way. Blowing up the batmobile isn't gonna do that.

In other words: Batman is cooler. He is smarter. Superman is just a dumb jock with super powers so he loses. There shouldn't be saving face explanations. Superman is more powerful he destroys Batman's batmobile and gadgets and flies away to save a sinking ship or rescue some victims from an earthquake.

[Coal Tiger]

In other words: Batman is cooler. He is smarter. Superman is just a dumb jock with super powers so he loses. There shouldn't be saving face explanations. Superman is more powerful he destroys Batman's batmobile and gadgets and flies away to save a sinking ship or rescue some victims from an earthquake.

And then you're left with the message that the dumb jock always wins. You can imagine how well that would go over with the target audience, right?

[Francisco]

And then you're left with the message that the dumb jock always wins. You can imagine how well that would go over with the target audience, right?

no. if he was a dumb jock he would lose. That's the excuse which is always used to justify Batman winning. Superman is not dumb or unprepared so there's no way Batman can be little more than a nuisance to him. Other than a philosophical debate Batman has nothing to do in a battle with Superman other than lose badly.

[Kandor Rising]

This movie looks dark and depressing. The Force Awakens had a much better trailer.

[Francisco]

This movie looks dark and depressing. The Force Awakens had a much better trailer.

because it is the second The Force Awakens trailer. BvS released justs a teaser not an actual trailer. TFA first teaser wasn't that great either

[Coal Tiger]

no. if he was a dumb jock he would lose. That's the excuse which is always used to justify Batman winning. Superman is not dumb or unprepared so there's no way Batman can be little more than a nuisance to him. Other than a philosophical debate Batman has nothing to do in a battle with Superman other than lose badly.

Your firm stance that Superman should win because power levels say he should is exactly the reason there are so many stories where Batman wins or outsmarts Superman and there are so many writers who choose to tell that story. The strong guy winning a fight because he's strong isn't dramatically interesting. It doesn't matter if that's the way it should logically play out. These aren't documentaries.

[Francisco]

Your firm stance that Superman should win because power levels say he should is exactly the reason there are so many stories where Batman wins or outsmarts Superman and there are so many writers who choose to tell that story. The strong guy winning a fight because he's strong isn't dramatically interesting. It doesn't matter if that's the way it should logically play out. These aren't documentaries.

Other than The Dark Knight Returns what are those stories?


And it is not just power level but his whole character. Superman is just plain better than Batman at everything.

[DochaDocha]

I'm sure there are a lot of people who like a bit of irony in their movies, e.g. the mere mortal beats the god-like being, but I think sometimes it's just painful overkill. Sometimes, you just have to go with the obvious outcome. Of course I'm biased, but I feel like if you get too cutesy with the irony, it just becomes mind-numbingly awful.

Anyway, this thread has unintentionally indicated why Superman fans often point out that Superman really has so little to gain, and so much to lose, if he fights Batman. Again, if Batman loses, you can always say of course he would lose, because he's fighting a god-like being. We haven't covered every single possibility, but I think in almost every scenario you can come up with, Superman is going to look bad if they engage in a real fight, which is why a lot of us Superman fans want either no fight at all, or something that amounts to much less than a true knockdown, drag-out fight. Earlier, I praised the fight Loeb and Lee depicted in "Hush," but it did have a big problem: Superman was mind-controlled, and he fought as a pawn for a villain. Short of these kind of mind-control stories, Superman is going to gravitate toward looking like a bully, or looking incompetent. If you want to make a movie that's being marketed as a big fight between Superman and Batman (gosh, it's in the title!), and you want both heroes to come out looking like the heroes we know them to be, you have to traverse a minefield of bad creative decisions. It's doable, but it's hard, and most of the time (if not all of the time) you have to pay a toll to get there.

I believe Snyder and company can do it, but it's a tall task, and if they accomplish something that makes most of us reasonably happy, I'll be highly impressed. However, if a lot of us end up feeling dissatisfied, my response will be one of little shock.