The Man Without Fear: Daredevil Appreciation

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Prior to the 2003 FOX Daredevil movie, Chris Columbus was developing a DD movie with Carlo Carlei.
Former DD writer J.M. DeMatteis wrote a screenplay, based on the previous versions Columbus and Carlei had written.
DeMatteis has posted some of his movie treatment on his blog;
http://www.jmdematteis.com/2012/04/m...hout-fear.html


Thanks for your writing of Matt Murdock aka Daredevil!
http://www.comicsreporter.com/index...._jm_dematteis/

[Mike_Murdock]

There's a separate thread for it, but I just want to say Daredevil #14 might be the best one of this run.

Also, there's an interview with the author of a new book, Frank Miller's Daredevil and the Ends of Heroism, which looks to be quite interesting.

[phantom1592]

Prior to the 2003 FOX Daredevil movie, Chris Columbus was developing a DD movie with Carlo Carlei.
Former DD writer J.M. DeMatteis wrote a screenplay, based on the previous versions Columbus and Carlei had written.
DeMatteis has posted some of his movie treatment on his blog;
http://www.jmdematteis.com/2012/04/m...hout-fear.html


Thanks for your writing of Matt Murdock aka Daredevil!
http://www.comicsreporter.com/index...._jm_dematteis/

I remember that issue. I was amazed at how WELL that Spider-man artist drew the black costume. I absolutely HATED it in Daredevil and it caused me to drop the book for awhile. Seeing it drawn with a cleaner artist... while still totally WRONG for Daredevil... It actually had some neat visual aspects to it.

[The Overlord]

I noticed something with Daredevil comics, a writer will introduce new villains and use them in their run and then they are hardly, if ever, used again.

Of the Nocenti villains, only Typhoid Mary has had any staying power. Bushwacker and Bullet were interesting concepts, that got left by the wayside after Nocenti left the title. Ammo was kinda dull and the Wildboys would need a revamp to be relevant and compelling.

I liked some of the villains Waid introduced, like Ikari and Coyote, but I wonder if we will see them ever again. It would be a shame if they never appeared again.

I like some of the villains Soule has introduced, like the Muse.

Don't get me wrong, some villains were meant to be one shot bad guys and don't really need to appear again, like Sammy Silke, Rotgut, etc.

But I do think it would be nice if some of these new villains stuck around after their creator leaves.

The only recent villain that has had any staying power is Lady Bullseye and I think that is because she shares the name with a major Miller villain.

It does seem like at the end of the day, the DD title goes back to Kingpin, Bullseye, Typhoid Mary, the Hand and Owl for some reason, as the only reoccurring major villains.

Are there villains who you feel should be reoccurring enemies?

[phantom1592]

I noticed something with Daredevil comics, a writer will introduce new villains and use them in their run and then they are hardly, if ever, used again.

Of the Nocenti villains, only Typhoid Mary has had any staying power. Bushwacker and Bullet were interesting concepts, that got left by the wayside after Nocenti left the title. Ammo was kinda dull and the Wildboys would need a revamp to be relevant and compelling.

I liked some of the villains Waid introduced, like Ikari and Coyote, but I wonder if we will see them ever again. It would be a shame if they never appeared again.

I like some of the villains Soule has introduced, like the Muse.

Don't get me wrong, some villains were meant to be one shot bad guys and don't really need to appear again, like Sammy Silke, Rotgut, etc.

But I do think it would be nice if some of these new villains stuck around after their creator leaves.

The only recent villain that has had any staying power is Lady Bullseye and I think that is because she shares the name with a major Miller villain.

It does seem like at the end of the day, the DD title goes back to Kingpin, Bullseye, Typhoid Mary, the Hand and Owl for some reason, as the only reoccurring major villains.

Are there villains who you feel should be reoccurring enemies?

The flip side of that is when other writers bring back villains and completely trash them or change them in ways the original writer never intended. I consider Elektra high on that list. I absolutely hate everything about her after her resurrection.

Owl is pretty cool in his own way. I'd love to actually see more of him. He's a crime boss like Kingpin... but he's NOT kingpin. Written well, they could use Owl in almost any story needing Fisk WITHOUT going back to that same well again. The other one that I really had high hopes for was the 'Pre-kingpin'. That was the single thing I really looked forward to in Bendis' run. He wasn't bringing back Fisk... he pulled the guy that Fisk took over for out of retirement and had him try to regain hell's kitchen. THAT was a cool idea... but then he killed him in the same story so that was a waste. .

Outside of the classic Stan Lee villains... I'm having a hard time thinking of any that I really thought deserved more spotlight then they got. Bullseye was always my favorite, but he's been overused too at this point. I never liked Typhoid at all... Echo was cool for a bit, but she turned 'good' too quickly to keep her as a villain.

Maybe Taskmaster and Tombstone. not really 'daredevil' villains, but neither was Kingpin. They fit well in his stories and have shown up before and made some good stories. Hammerhead? If they want to keep having Daredevil fight organized crime... Marvel has a lot of gangsters that should show up.

[Mike_Murdock]

I noticed something with Daredevil comics, a writer will introduce new villains and use them in their run and then they are hardly, if ever, used again.

Of the Nocenti villains, only Typhoid Mary has had any staying power. Bushwacker and Bullet were interesting concepts, that got left by the wayside after Nocenti left the title. Ammo was kinda dull and the Wildboys would need a revamp to be relevant and compelling.

I liked some of the villains Waid introduced, like Ikari and Coyote, but I wonder if we will see them ever again. It would be a shame if they never appeared again.

I like some of the villains Soule has introduced, like the Muse.

Don't get me wrong, some villains were meant to be one shot bad guys and don't really need to appear again, like Sammy Silke, Rotgut, etc.

But I do think it would be nice if some of these new villains stuck around after their creator leaves.

The only recent villain that has had any staying power is Lady Bullseye and I think that is because she shares the name with a major Miller villain.

It does seem like at the end of the day, the DD title goes back to Kingpin, Bullseye, Typhoid Mary, the Hand and Owl for some reason, as the only reoccurring major villains.

Are there villains who you feel should be reoccurring enemies?

I think this is more perception than accuracy. I'll try to explore it in a little more detail to explain why:

I'll start with Volume 2. I can address Volume 1 after. Kevin Smith used Mysterio. David Mack used Kingpin. Bob Gale used the Ringmaster. None of them are new villains. Bendis didn't really invent any villains intended to have staying power. He used a few low-level mobsters and he used reoccurring villains like The Owl. There wasn't anyone to bring back. Brubaker pretty much introduced Lady Bullseye. If you count anyone else, it would be that new Matador, but he was very context-specific and would be hard to bring back. Mark Waid's run essentially just ended. It's too soon to say if Ikari or Coyote would return (although my impression was Coyote literally drew his power from the Spot, so I don't know if he can return).

I'll go back to Ann Nocenti because I agree she created a greater number of characters with potential: The Nameless One, Bushwacker, Bullet, Ammo, The Wildboys, Typhoid Mary, Blackheart, and Shotgun.

The Nameless One appeared in Daredevil #310. Bushwacker has cameoed in a lot of books (even recently) and appeared in Daredevil in 334 and 380. Bullet has sadly been underused. Ammo hasn't appeared (whether that's a bad thing is a matter of opinion), but The Wildboys appeared in 317-318. Typhoid Mary obviously continued throughout the 90s and was then reintroduced by Bendis and has stayed since then more or less. Blackheart obviously is a significant recurring villain, appearing in Ghost Rider and the latest Spider-Man. Shotgun came back in an insulting way in Bendis's run, being both generic and easily defeated, but he did reappear.

The villains introduced after Nocenti frankly suck. We did get the Snakeroot introduced as a distinct concept (a sort of inner circle of The Hand) and that came back in time for Shadowland.

TL;DR: It's not accurate to say that none of the villains have reappeared. It's just that none have made the same impact as Typhoid Mary and that's reasonable because she's a far more interesting character. She did have the advantage in the 90s of still working for the Kingpin so she appeared when he appeared. She also had the advantage of Bendis using her memorably in Hardcore. Since Nocenti, there haven't been villains in Volume One with potential and, in Volume 2, the one Brubaker created has returned and it's too soon to tell for Waid.

[darewithpeace]

go go daredevil ranger

[The Whovian]

I noticed something with Daredevil comics, a writer will introduce new villains and use them in their run and then they are hardly, if ever, used again.

Of the Nocenti villains, only Typhoid Mary has had any staying power. Bushwacker and Bullet were interesting concepts, that got left by the wayside after Nocenti left the title. Ammo was kinda dull and the Wildboys would need a revamp to be relevant and compelling.

I liked some of the villains Waid introduced, like Ikari and Coyote, but I wonder if we will see them ever again. It would be a shame if they never appeared again.

I like some of the villains Soule has introduced, like the Muse.

Don't get me wrong, some villains were meant to be one shot bad guys and don't really need to appear again, like Sammy Silke, Rotgut, etc.

But I do think it would be nice if some of these new villains stuck around after their creator leaves.

The only recent villain that has had any staying power is Lady Bullseye and I think that is because she shares the name with a major Miller villain.

It does seem like at the end of the day, the DD title goes back to Kingpin, Bullseye, Typhoid Mary, the Hand and Owl for some reason, as the only reoccurring major villains.

Are there villains who you feel should be reoccurring enemies?

This is mostly accurate. Only Bullseye and the Kingpin have been recurring villains throughout DD's history.

[Mike_Murdock]

I just don't think it is. I think Mr. Fear has appeared on many occasions, for example. I think The Owl absolutely qualifies as a recurring villain. I suspect The Owl has actually appeared more than Bullseye.

[Turlast]

Currently reading through both Nocenti and Smithee's run.

The Blackheart issue with Spidey was pretty good. I remember when I first saw the weird Mephisto design in the Marvel Super Heroes game and wondered why he looked like that. I guess it originated here.

Also reading through the "Kruel" issues. This guy is a strange one. I also got to see Glorianna's fate, which was pretty sad. Seems like Kingpin is being helpful, but you can never trust him.

The one thing I like about Daredevil stories is that they're all unique. Back when I was ignorant of Daredevil as a character, I just assumed he was a boring hero because he had no cartoon and "lame" powers. I was way off on that. Once I read "Born Again", my entire opinion on Daredevil changed forever.

[AJpyro]

I did it, I read the first volume of the Bendis run. My god,

The Urich story was ok. A visual treat that only David Mack could bring.
The Kingpin story was ok but man was it loaded with the Bendisisms I've come to be annoyed by.

But then...then we get to the outing. And the cases. And White Tiger. Goddang it was so good.

[The Overlord]

I think this is more perception than accuracy. I'll try to explore it in a little more detail to explain why:

I'll start with Volume 2. I can address Volume 1 after. Kevin Smith used Mysterio. David Mack used Kingpin. Bob Gale used the Ringmaster. None of them are new villains. Bendis didn't really invent any villains intended to have staying power. He used a few low-level mobsters and he used reoccurring villains like The Owl. There wasn't anyone to bring back. Brubaker pretty much introduced Lady Bullseye. If you count anyone else, it would be that new Matador, but he was very context-specific and would be hard to bring back. Mark Waid's run essentially just ended. It's too soon to say if Ikari or Coyote would return (although my impression was Coyote literally drew his power from the Spot, so I don't know if he can return).

I'll go back to Ann Nocenti because I agree she created a greater number of characters with potential: The Nameless One, Bushwacker, Bullet, Ammo, The Wildboys, Typhoid Mary, Blackheart, and Shotgun.

The Nameless One appeared in Daredevil #310. Bushwacker has cameoed in a lot of books (even recently) and appeared in Daredevil in 334 and 380. Bullet has sadly been underused. Ammo hasn't appeared (whether that's a bad thing is a matter of opinion), but The Wildboys appeared in 317-318. Typhoid Mary obviously continued throughout the 90s and was then reintroduced by Bendis and has stayed since then more or less. Blackheart obviously is a significant recurring villain, appearing in Ghost Rider and the latest Spider-Man. Shotgun came back in an insulting way in Bendis's run, being both generic and easily defeated, but he did reappear.

The villains introduced after Nocenti frankly suck. We did get the Snakeroot introduced as a distinct concept (a sort of inner circle of The Hand) and that came back in time for Shadowland.

TL;DR: It's not accurate to say that none of the villains have reappeared. It's just that none have made the same impact as Typhoid Mary and that's reasonable because she's a far more interesting character. She did have the advantage in the 90s of still working for the Kingpin so she appeared when he appeared. She also had the advantage of Bendis using her memorably in Hardcore. Since Nocenti, there haven't been villains in Volume One with potential and, in Volume 2, the one Brubaker created has returned and it's too soon to tell for Waid.

That is a pretty generous definition of reoccuring.

Bullet has done nothing but get a glorified cameo since the Nocenti era. Mr. Fear has not appeared in 8 years, Bushwacker has not done anything relevant since 2006 Punisher Daredevil crossover.

Reoccurring means more then a brief appearance once a decade, it means they have plot relevant stories on a semi regular basis. Shotgun showing up for a page during Bendis does not cut it.

B-list Spider-Man, Batman, Flash, Superman and other major heroes have far better examples of reoccuring B-list villains then the DD villains you mentioned.

[Mike_Murdock]

My point being that characters continued past Nocenti. They just weren't picked up by Bendis, more or less. Mr. Fear hasn't appeared in eight years, but he had a major arc then and a very significant story in the 90s as well. Certainly, those weren't brief appearances.

[phantom1592]

It shouldn't be dismissed that comic writing has changed drastically this last decade or so. Everything is decompressed to the point that 8 years ago... is really what? 12-14 stories ago? You could squeeze in a Mr. Hyde or an Eel or a Matador story once in a while back in the 90's and earlier and keep the characters having some kind of footprint in the books. Now? a whole year's issues may consist of 2 complete stories, featuring ONE villain and take place in less than a week. Batman's the other one that has that issue. I think in the 5 year NU52 time, Batman had what? three major Joker Stories consisting of massive family crossovers?? The 'non-joker' stories were barely enough time to regain your breath before they drug him out again...

Personally I miss the single issue battles vs Bullseye or Jester or Enforcers or SOMETHING that didn't require 6 issues in a TPB to do. We got more variation that way.

[Mike_Murdock]

Yep. Ed Brubaker wrote two story arcs where Mr. Fear is essentially the villain. I'd have to check specifically, but I suspect it was about a year's worth of stories.