Valiant Universe: Harbinger, Unity, Rai, A&A; current state & future prospects

[scribbleMind]

Yeah, I remember when I was upset that the analog man was just a transition into blood island, but this first issue of blood island has put that all behind me now. Loved it. X-O as well, naturally, but that wasn't never in question. Really curious about where the vine are going to end up now.

[TheFerg714]

Sadly I'm dropping Valiant altogether. What with Imperium ending, XO ending, the previews for Brittannia not really drawing my interest, nor the teasers for Savage. 4001 has been disappointing to my tastes, and Faith and the rebooted A&A are just really drivel (again to my tastes, not a blanket statement, if you like em great).

Well that's too bad man. I could argue with you all day about how I disagree with you, but to each his own. I understand the cancellations of Imperium and X-O; the previews for everything in Future of Valiant look great (besides maybe Gen. Zero imo); I'm really loving 4001AD; I understand your dislike of Faith, but I surprisingly loved it and can't wait for more (even though it really wasn't made to appeal to me); And finally I do agree that A&A is not very good. I'm giving it two more issues.

But yea, whatever, I hope you move on to bigger and better comic heights. What are you reading nowadays, if not Valiant?

[kinggirlfriend]

I finished BoD, the main Series, and read the FALL OF BLOODSHOT and NINJAK. BoD, had it's moments and I'm glad I read it but it did have a feeling of pointlessness. I cringed at all the stuff with David. Everything felt off. Could have been shorter. The glimpses into the possible futures was neat but stories about possible stories kinda bore me. Sh!t or get off the pot. The 2 FALL OF BOOKS were much much better. While the BLOODSHOT book was also a bunch of glimpses into the future it felt more fully realized. The art was better on both. I saw that Robert Gill is set to be the artist on the next WRATH OF THE ETERNAL WARRIOR arc after LABYRINTH, and I'm kinda not too excited about that. FALL OF NINJAK was great. I've really fallen in love with the character after the first couple stories I read.

But it's odd reading posts where people say they are done with Valiant just when I'm getting into it. There seems (for me) a lot of stuff to still get excited about, BRITTANIA, FIST AND STEEL, BLOODSHOT ISLAND, STALINVERSE, etc. But I get it. My comic reading tends to go in cycles. Sometimes you just have to switch gears and find something else that gets you excited again. It'll all be here when you come back.

[harashkupo]

I finished BoD, the main Series, and read the FALL OF BLOODSHOT and NINJAK. BoD, had it's moments and I'm glad I read it but it did have a feeling of pointlessness. I cringed at all the stuff with David. Everything felt off. Could have been shorter. The glimpses into the possible futures was neat but stories about possible stories kinda bore me. Sh!t or get off the pot. The 2 FALL OF BOOKS were much much better. While the BLOODSHOT book was also a bunch of glimpses into the future it felt more fully realized. The art was better on both. I saw that Robert Gill is set to be the artist on the next WRATH OF THE ETERNAL WARRIOR arc after LABYRINTH, and I'm kinda not too excited about that. FALL OF NINJAK was great. I've really fallen in love with the character after the first couple stories I read.

But it's odd reading posts where people say they are done with Valiant just when I'm getting into it. There seems (for me) a lot of stuff to still get excited about, BRITTANIA, FIST AND STEEL, BLOODSHOT ISLAND, STALINVERSE, etc. But I get it. My comic reading tends to go in cycles. Sometimes you just have to switch gears and find something else that gets you excited again. It'll all be here when you come back.

Are you going to be checking out the other BoD one shots? I thought those two were also really good.

[TheFerg714]

Are you going to be checking out the other BoD one shots? I thought those two were also really good.

Yea, I adored the X-O one-shot.

1. X-O Manowar
2. Bloodshot
3. Ninjak
4. Harbinger

[kinggirlfriend]

Yeah I just finished the the two. I don't follow either series regularly so I saved them for last, but holy cow were they good! I did tear up at Faith's funeral. All the FALL OF issues were incredibly well done.

I finished the third TIMEWALKER trade today. I'd say it's in the running for my favorite Valiant series. It was sooooo good! So sad to be done with it and am running out of Fred Van Lente to read. I'd like to see him tackle the Pirate Armstrong/Bloodshot series, full of adventure on the high seas!

Picked up the second DR MIRAGE trade and the second NINJAK trade today.

[harashkupo]

Yeah I just finished the the two. I don't follow either series regularly so I saved them for last, but holy cow were they good! I did tear up at Faith's funeral. All the FALL OF issues were incredibly well done.

I finished the third TIMEWALKER trade today. I'd say it's in the running for my favorite Valiant series. It was sooooo good! So sad to be done with it and am running out of Fred Van Lente to read. I'd like to see him tackle the Pirate Armstrong/Bloodshot series, full of adventure on the high seas!

Picked up the second DR MIRAGE trade and the second NINJAK trade today.

That's why I love Dysart, with just a few panels he captures everything great about Faith simply through how she's touched others people's lives.

And yeah now that you've said it, I need a FVL Pirate Armstrong/Bloodshot story in my life.

[TheFerg714]

Well seeing as this thread is slow as dirt right now, I'm gonna use this opportunity to share an idea I had for VEI that, I think, would propel them to the forefront of the industry. My idea includes the hypothetical purchase of the Gold Key characters, so it's a little farfetched, but I think the fact that Dynamite's Gold Key Alliance is failing so hard gives a little credence to the thought of Valiant purchasing those characters outright.

Up until Valiant Next, VEI gave us pretty much all of their "normal" superheroes: X-O, Harbinger, A&A, Bloodshot, Shadowman, Gilad, Unity, Dr. Mirage, Rai. Granted, "normal" for Valiant, isn't exactly "normal" for every one else, but to Valiant, these characters pretty much cover the spectrum of super powered individuals in the Valiant U. Valiant Next however, changed it up a little. Sure, we got Ninjak and Bloodshot, but books like Imperium, Timewalker, and Divinity are pretty weird compared to your average superhero fare. And now we're getting The Future of Valiant, which is essentially entirely full of weird and out-of-left-field concepts (like Gen. Zero, Savage, Brittania, and Stalinverse). Faith, Harbinger, and Bloodshot USA are the only books that come close to feeling like anything the big two might put out, but the charm of Faith is that she is a prototypical superhero stereotype, unlike anyone else in the Valiant U, which makes her a little different in her own right. My point is that the Future of Valiant initiative is really pushing the Valiant U into some pretty strange and unique directions, which I quite like (theoretically, at least), but it's not all that Valiant has to offer.

Now, what if Valiant went in the complete opposite direction for their next sales initiative? What if, instead of showing everyone how unique and ballsy they are, they show everyone that they can compete with the big two, even when it comes to regular superheroics? DC's Rebirth and New 52 have done fantastic for their company, and the industry as a whole. Marvel's constant relaunches, while obnoxious and overblown, do tend to get a lot of attention and a fair amount of sales. So why not show the competition up at their own game? A year and a half or so after Future of Valiant would be the absolute perfect opportunity to do so. Imagine this... Valiant announces 6 new books, one new book every month: Solar, Magnus, Turok, a rebooted X-O Manowar and Shadowman, and Bloodshot could either a get a new #1 or just lose the 'Reborn' in preparation for the movie. These, coupled with new story arcs for Faith, Ninjak, and Harbinger would attract a lot of attention towards Valiant.

So, yea, that's my idea. I know it's not too well thought-out or anything, but I think it would be great for the company to just say to the world that they're the 3rd biggest superhero-shared-universe in comics, and they don't plan on going anywhere.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that a Livewire team-up book starring GIN-GR and Sunlight on Snow would be awesome, and adding a female-led book to this initiative would really round out the line and fill the arbitrary diversity quotas that a lot of comic readers tend to have nowadays (along with Turok and Shadowman).
EDIT 2: I'm realizing that I didn't really consider that Valiant can only do a certain number of publications-per-month, so obviously this idea is a little rough around the edges. Personally, assuming that Valiant does indeed purchase the GK3, I think they would do well to jump to 12-15 books a month.

[thewarning]

Bloodshot could either a get a new #1 or just lose the 'Reborn' in preparation for the movie.

Just jumpin' in to remind you they're basically "relaunching" Bloodshot Reborn as a new mini at the end of the current arc. As for the movie, holding my breath – not because of anything on Valiant's side, but unless they're much further along in pre-production than we think (they've been so mum on any developments), this is definitely not happening in 2017. I have a lot of complicated feelings about the film slate, which connects to:

EDIT 2: I'm realizing that I didn't really consider that Valiant can only do a certain number of publications-per-month, so obviously this idea is a little rough around the edges. Personally, assuming that Valiant does indeed purchase the GK3, I think they would do well to jump to 12-15 books a month.

I think there's just one new issue coming out this week. I know they want to keep their line relatively small to make sure it's tight, but they need to increase brand awareness. The best way to do this is make sure there's always at least two or three issues out each week. The line needs to expand. It's hard to convince someone to start buying Valiant if the only new issue this week is a one-shot event tie-in featuring a future version of a character who currently is not appearing in any other title. They need a flagship title like XO so they can showcase their ability to sustain an IP and they need more books. Period.

I think your ideas are all solid, but unless Valiant is wider known – not necessarily by "flooding" stands, but by increasing its footprint – then they won't be able to expand readership or general awareness. Suckers like us who read floppies are only a slice of the pie – they're Valiant "Entertainment" after all – which means film and media partnerships, which is it's own source of income. However, how do you make a Bloodshot or Harbinger media franchise profitable if the only people who are anticipating them are 3% of the comics-reading market?

[Inhuman X]

Well seeing as this thread is slow as dirt right now, I'm gonna use this opportunity to share an idea I had for VEI that, I think, would propel them to the forefront of the industry. My idea includes the hypothetical purchase of the Gold Key characters, so it's a little farfetched, but I think the fact that Dynamite's Gold Key Alliance is failing so hard gives a little credence to the thought of Valiant purchasing those characters outright.

Up until Valiant Next, VEI gave us pretty much all of their "normal" superheroes: X-O, Harbinger, A&A, Bloodshot, Shadowman, Gilad, Unity, Dr. Mirage, Rai. Granted, "normal" for Valiant, isn't exactly "normal" for every one else, but to Valiant, these characters pretty much cover the spectrum of super powered individuals in the Valiant U. Valiant Next however, changed it up a little. Sure, we got Ninjak and Bloodshot, but books like Imperium, Timewalker, and Divinity are pretty weird compared to your average superhero fare. And now we're getting The Future of Valiant, which is essentially entirely full of weird and out-of-left-field concepts (like Gen. Zero, Savage, Brittania, and Stalinverse). Faith, Harbinger, and Bloodshot USA are the only books that come close to feeling like anything the big two might put out, but the charm of Faith is that she is a prototypical superhero stereotype, unlike anyone else in the Valiant U, which makes her a little different in her own right. My point is that the Future of Valiant initiative is really pushing the Valiant U into some pretty strange and unique directions, which I quite like (theoretically, at least), but it's not all that Valiant has to offer.

Now, what if Valiant went in the complete opposite direction for their next sales initiative? What if, instead of showing everyone how unique and ballsy they are, they show everyone that they can compete with the big two, even when it comes to regular superheroics? DC's Rebirth and New 52 have done fantastic for their company, and the industry as a whole. Marvel's constant relaunches, while obnoxious and overblown, do tend to get a lot of attention and a fair amount of sales. So why not show the competition up at their own game? A year and a half or so after Future of Valiant would be the absolute perfect opportunity to do so. Imagine this... Valiant announces 6 new books, one new book every month: Solar, Magnus, Turok, a rebooted X-O Manowar and Shadowman, and Bloodshot could either a get a new #1 or just lose the 'Reborn' in preparation for the movie. These, coupled with new story arcs for Faith, Ninjak, and Harbinger would attract a lot of attention towards Valiant.

So, yea, that's my idea. I know it's not too well thought-out or anything, but I think it would be great for the company to just say to the world that they're the 3rd biggest superhero-shared-universe in comics, and they don't plan on going anywhere.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that a Livewire team-up book starring GIN-GR and Sunlight on Snow would be awesome, and adding a female-led book to this initiative would really round out the line and fill the arbitrary diversity quotas that a lot of comic readers tend to have nowadays (along with Turok and Shadowman).
EDIT 2: I'm realizing that I didn't really consider that Valiant can only do a certain number of publications-per-month, so obviously this idea is a little rough around the edges. Personally, assuming that Valiant does indeed purchase the GK3, I think they would do well to jump to 12-15 books a month.

I think everyone who was a fan of Valiant would love to see the GK3 make a comeback under their banner. I just don't see it happening unless Dynamite folds as a company and starts selling off their assets. When it comes to Valiant future a legitimate question is can any indie compete for the typical super hero readership with a small market saturated by the big 2 with books, movies, toys, and collectible trinkets? There are simply not as many people reading comics anymore and I can't help but wonder if the future might be digital and animated for indie capes. As such, I can't blame Valiant for trying to branch out into left field to find a larger market share or really make a niche they can grow into with different types of comics. In some ways, my favorite book Imperium tried to branch away from the typical capes comic while using enough of the same tropes to keep it recognizable. As good as it was, it couldn't break the multimedia Marvel and Disney dominated market to keep going and most comic readers wouldn't know what it is

Just jumpin' in to remind you they're basically "relaunching" Bloodshot Reborn as a new mini at the end of the current arc. As for the movie, holding my breath – not because of anything on Valiant's side, but unless they're much further along in pre-production than we think (they've been so mum on any developments), this is definitely not happening in 2017. I have a lot of complicated feelings about the film slate, which connects to:


I think there's just one new issue coming out this week. I know they want to keep their line relatively small to make sure it's tight, but they need to increase brand awareness. The best way to do this is make sure there's always at least two or three issues out each week. The line needs to expand. It's hard to convince someone to start buying Valiant if the only new issue this week is a one-shot event tie-in featuring a future version of a character who currently is not appearing in any other title. They need a flagship title like XO so they can showcase their ability to sustain an IP and they need more books. Period.

I think your ideas are all solid, but unless Valiant is wider known – not necessarily by "flooding" stands, but by increasing its footprint – then they won't be able to expand readership or general awareness. Suckers like us who read floppies are only a slice of the pie – they're Valiant "Entertainment" after all – which means film and media partnerships, which is it's own source of income. However, how do you make a Bloodshot or Harbinger media franchise profitable if the only people who are anticipating them are 3% of the comics-reading market?

Yeah, as a publisher they need more books on the market but, that's easier said than done. If you could count on simply being a good comic book as being enough to make it outside of the cross media umbrella of some large corp willing to take a loss for a big movie down the road then half the indie field would dominate the sales chart. That isn't happening. Crazier, who is going to read what you produce?

[thewarning]

Yeah, as a publisher they need more books on the market but, that's easier said than done. If you could count on simply being a good comic book as being enough to make it outside of the cross media umbrella of some large corp willing to take a loss for a big movie down the road then half the indie field would dominate the sales chart. That isn't happening. Crazier, who is going to read what you produce?

Look, I think we're on the same page, but it's a lot easier to publish a few more titles a month than it is to wrangle a transnational media deal for 10 figures in equity, then work within the Hollywood system to produce franchises for fresh IPs. Doing em both at the same time while still carving out an audience seems especially ambitious. We've seen the slow and steady method work to Valiant's advantage, but this is a long game. From relaunch to successful movies in 6 years? I dunno.

[Inhuman X]

Look, I think we're on the same page, but it's a lot easier to publish a few more titles a month than it is to wrangle a transnational media deal for 10 figures in equity, then work within the Hollywood system to produce franchises for fresh IPs. Doing em both at the same time while still carving out an audience seems especially ambitious. We've seen the slow and steady method work to Valiant's advantage, but this is a long game. From relaunch to successful movies in 6 years? I dunno.

I am not sure how to approach this but I am thinking about some of the photo art complaints regarding the end of some series runs recently. Valiant is a small publisher and I honestly don't know how much capitol they have on hand to launch new series and how long they can wait on a new book to pay itself off while keeping the bigger titles going particularly when the market is questionable. A counter idea might be in asking should they shrink the line and focus on making what sells as successful as they can before trying to float any more new books on the market and be extremely conservative when doing so? When you see a flagship book like X-O end you get to thinking and questioning...

It's all theory craft as we don't know what Valiant can and can't do right now, only speculate fan boyishly for fun.

[harashkupo]

I wish they could put out a couple more titles a month but I don't know if they're able to do it. They would need an interesting concept along with a quality writer and artist. As it is, their talent pool is rather small and even with the small line up of books we see the same people rotated between series.

[Captain Craig]

I think everyone who was a fan of Valiant would love to see the GK3 make a comeback under their banner. I just don't see it happening unless Dynamite folds as a company and starts selling off their assets.

Dynamites viability as a company is inconsequential in that regard. All they've done is lease the rights to print new stories about the GK3. Dynamite does not own them.
Western Publishing owns them.

I'm in that group of orig VALIANT 90's fans who would love to see VEI buy them from WP and wholly, legally own them to use going forward.

[scribbleMind]

Very exciting. If I was a teacher, I'd say that Valiant deserves a pizza party.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07/...-put-together/