Valiant Universe: Harbinger, Unity, Rai, A&A; current state & future prospects

[scribbleMind]

Thank you for the trailer.

I was probably being too harsh when I said that I wasn't impressed, because I actually did enjoy Harbinger quite a bit. It's just that my friends had really hyped Harbinger up by saying that it was by far the best comic book series they have ever read, so my expectations were through the roof. Also, I generally prefer the style mainstream comics like Marvel and DC.

I think the main issue that I had with Harbinger (and Doctor Mirage) was that they move at such a different pace from Marvel and DC comics to the point where it was more difficult for me to get into. It's kind of like watching a Christopher Nolan movie for the first time after spending all of your time only watching Michael Bay movies. Harbinger was a lot slower than Deadpool or The Superior Foes of Spiderman, as it spent a lot more time setting up the atmosphere and the characters. However, I definitely want to keep reading.

Thanks for your interest.

I'm of two minds here. Valiant is known for their four issue arcs, which is 2 issues lower than the norm. As such, pacing should actually be much quicker. However, overall I would say it was slower, but Harbingers was one of the first books in the line and it had a lot of world building to accomplish considering all the books that spin-off of and are connected to it (Bloodshot, UNITY, Imperium, Generation Zero, Secret Weapons). It's probably their most important brand.

So maybe look for things less important. If Valiant has a Spider-Man/Superman, it's X-O Manowar. X-O Manowar is faster paced because really most of the world building is done in Harbingers and Archer and Armstrong. Even though Aric is at the heart of two events, he very often is left to his own devices. Also faster paced is Quantum and Woody, although that is far more comedic in nature. Generally, if someone asks me for an in to the Valiant universe I turn to The Valiant event mini-series. It is, imo, their best event.

[reversedeadshot]

If you had to compare Valiant characters to the "Big 2"'s characters, how would you compare them?

Who to who, exactly and why?

I'm just trying to get my friend into something else... another alternative, to say the least, besides DC and Marvel. He thinks, nothing else compares to them or whatever. Or, he's just a major fanboy of both. I don't know... lol.

By the way, I apologize for such a newbie/absurd question.

[Captain Craig]

If you had to compare Valiant characters to the "Big 2"'s characters, how would you compare them?

Who to who, exactly and why?

X-O: Manowar - is a hybrid of Marvel's 3 Big Avengers: Cap, Thor & Iron Man where Cap=man out of time, Thor=ancient warrior class & IM=suit of armor
Bloodshot - is one part Punisher, one part Deathlok where Punisher=killing w/o remorse when needed, Deathlok=programmed against his will. The character evolves from this trait but that's where he starts. He's still a violent character but the Deathlok aspect is purged to the point I'd say he's trying to redefine his own moral compass at this point.
Ninjak - is VEI's Batman, bottom line. No situation is too bizarre to be placed into. He's a wealthy orphan w/gadgets and top government tech and is usually the smartest one in a room. He comes out on top when he really shouldn't.
Harbinger(Renegades) - think X-Men who find out Professor X was a fraud and then begin to dismantle his charade.
Shadowman - is a bit Brother Voodoo mixed with all manner of supernatural.
RAI - the best of Iron Fist & Shang-Chi rolled into a sic-fi setting of the 41st century
Ivar the Timewalker - the more recent Booster Gold series at DC I suppose or Marvel's Exiles from the late 90s/00s. Time hopping adventures where preserving or restoring time alterations is paramount.
Archer & Armstrong - not sure Cable & Deadpool is wholly apt but it's what comes to mind. The book has the straight man and funny man synergy going for it.
Quantum & Woody - is a Booster Gold&Blue Beetle under Giffen type book from the late 80s/early 90s or maybe as pointless as Great Lakes Avengers title.
H.A.R.D. Corps - haven't had a solo title but split one with Bloodshot in '13. Augmented black ops force tied to the government. Maybe Checkmate at DC?
Eternal Warrior - a more solid Hercules title(not that recent 6 issue attempt) but more Incredible Hercules post World War Hulk. Character with centuries of history to draw on as backdrop
Divinity - I'm not even sure there is a DC/Marvel similarity but someone may point it out. He was created as an answer to Solar Man of the Atom, an original Gold Key character used by Valiant in the 90s when they originally launched but due to legality don't have whole ownership to as of now. I gave you a link to Solar's Wiki page.
Secret Weapons - still unfolding but as of now like New Warriors, Young Justice but less adept cause their powers aren't as offensively strong, or so they'be been led to think. Not a strong comparison as those teams are both fairly skilled from an intro standpoint.
Brittannia - a period piece set book in the first century A.D., I suppose Jonah Hex in some ways aka period setting.
Psi-Lords - forthcoming book, is one part Green Lantern/Nova Corps with all Corps members being tied back to Psiots(Harbinger) and H.A.R.D Corps.

[reversedeadshot]

Thank you for the "RIYLs (Recommended If You Likes)".

Would it be wrong to think that I can see a little bit of both Deadshot and Cyborg in Bloodshot though??

[Captain Craig]

^^^^
I wouldn't dispute those DC comparisons too hard for Bloodshot. Cyborg is free thinking though, Deathlok had a mind control aspect to him as did Bloodshot. I feel the Marvel one works a bit better based on that but go for it if the person you are talking to knows DC better.

[DarkAvenger]

X-O: Manowar - is a hybrid of Marvel's 3 Big Avengers: Cap, Thor & Iron Man where Cap=man out of time, Thor=ancient warrior class & IM=suit of armor
Bloodshot - is one part Punisher, one part Deathlok where Punisher=killing w/o remorse when needed, Deathlok=programmed against his will. The character evolves from this trait but that's where he starts. He's still a violent character but the Deathlok aspect is purged to the point I'd say he's trying to redefine his own moral compass at this point.
Ninjak - is VEI's Batman, bottom line. No situation is too bizarre to be placed into. He's a wealthy orphan w/gadgets and top government tech and is usually the smartest one in a room. He comes out on top when he really shouldn't.
Harbinger(Renegades) - think X-Men who find out Professor X was a fraud and then begin to dismantle his charade.
Shadowman - is a bit Brother Voodoo mixed with all manner of supernatural.
RAI - the best of Iron Fist & Shang-Chi rolled into a sic-fi setting of the 41st century
Ivar the Timewalker - the more recent Booster Gold series at DC I suppose or Marvel's Exiles from the late 90s/00s. Time hopping adventures where preserving or restoring time alterations is paramount.
Archer & Armstrong - not sure Cable & Deadpool is wholly apt but it's what comes to mind. The book has the straight man and funny man synergy going for it.
Quantum & Woody - is a Booster Gold&Blue Beetle under Giffen type book from the late 80s/early 90s or maybe as pointless as Great Lakes Avengers title.
H.A.R.D. Corps - haven't had a solo title but split one with Bloodshot in '13. Augmented black ops force tied to the government. Maybe Checkmate at DC?
Eternal Warrior - a more solid Hercules title(not that recent 6 issue attempt) but more Incredible Hercules post World War Hulk. Character with centuries of history to draw on as backdrop
Divinity - I'm not even sure there is a DC/Marvel similarity but someone may point it out. He was created as an answer to Solar Man of the Atom, an original Gold Key character used by Valiant in the 90s when they originally launched but due to legality don't have whole ownership to as of now. I gave you a link to Solar's Wiki page.
Secret Weapons - still unfolding but as of now like New Warriors, Young Justice but less adept cause their powers aren't as offensively strong, or so they'be been led to think. Not a strong comparison as those teams are both fairly skilled from an intro standpoint.
Brittannia - a period piece set book in the first century A.D., I suppose Jonah Hex in some ways aka period setting.
Psi-Lords - forthcoming book, is one part Green Lantern/Nova Corps with all Corps members being tied back to Psiots(Harbinger) and H.A.R.D Corps.

^^^^^^^^^^

Also, I would say compare Doctor Mirage to Doctor Stange. They both have similar removed personalities and harness necromantic magic.

[scribbleMind]

It's fun to connect dots and all, but one might consider that stretching to much may lead to expectations that will result in disappointment. Dr. Mirage is a perfect example. Dr. Strange is associated with grand spells and superheroics and fights to save the reality. That's not Dr. Mirage. She mostly deals with the dead, a bit of a specialist compared to Punk Mambo, and she's not out to save the day. Yeah she wants to help people, but most of her story is set around trying to help herself. There isn't a lot of fighting in any capacity. Point being, if I read Dr. Mirage because someone told me it was like Dr. Strange, I would be confused at best.

Faith and the Future Force was way better than I expected. Watching Neela work is great. She seems way more effective than Ivar, but surprisingly, colder too. I found Faith's excitement contagious, and every bit of Ank's dialogue pleased me. I like the design of the enemy here. Not exactly threatening, but very much in line with the sorts of things Ivar has faced before, and Armstrong faces on the regular. If the book can keep its momentum it I'm going to love this.

[kinggirlfriend]

Hmmm, I'm not sure there are analogues for Valiant characters at Marvel or DC. Some are similar but the overall tone is much different. On the surface some things may seem similar. NINJAK is a good example. Yeah in many ways he's like Batman, but the tone in his book is nothing like Batman. There's no Gotham and no dark brooding. He's a smart-ass full of quips. He fights weird magical beings in weird magical settings. Nothing street level here.

X-O is like Iron Man if the armor was alive and Tony was a caveman leading a group of time displaced vikings. So nothing like Iron Man in tone or execution. (Thankfully)

Britannia is nothing like Jonah Hex. Not close in a million years. That's a weird comparison IMO.

The closest thing to Britannia is the European graphic albums modeled after the movie THE NAME OF THE ROSE, a detective story set in the middle ages. So comics like THE THIRD TESTAMENT, MILLENNIUM, TOWERS OF BOIS-MAURY, and THE MARQUIS OF ANAON. There really aren't any Marvel /DC analogues to this stuff, and that's kinda the point. New and fresh ideas. FAITH and QUANTUM AND WOODY are probably the closest books to Marvel and DC, both trying to be conventional superheros. If anything Valiant is more like Image comics, IMO. Especially comics like DIVINITY and DR MIRAGE.

[TheFerg714]

Hmmm, I'm not sure there are analogues for Valiant characters at Marvel or DC. Some are similar but the overall tone is much different. On the surface some things may seem similar. NINJAK is a good example. Yeah in many ways he's like Batman, but the tone in his book is nothing like Batman. There's no Gotham and no dark brooding. He's a smart-ass full of quips. He fights weird magical beings in weird magical settings. Nothing street level here.

You know, I never thought of it that way, but Ninjak really is nothing like Batman. The only way they're similar is that they're both the only humans amongst superhumans. I would also add the differences between characters don't amount to comparisons like Green Arrow/Hawkeye, Namor/Aquaman, or Mr. Fantastic/Elongated Man. All of those characters have almost the exact same powers, whereas Valiant doesn't really have any characters that are direct counterparts to Marvel or DC. The only apt comparison like that is probably Harbinger/X-Men, but the whole concept of being born with superpowers and then joining a school gets flipped on it's head pretty immediately.
EDIT: Also, the prerequisite archer from the original Valiant universe was Turok, which was nothing like Green Arrow or Hawkeye at all.

X-O is like Iron Man if the armor was alive and Tony was a caveman leading a group of time displaced vikings. So nothing like Iron Man in tone or execution. (Thankfully)

Perfect explanation. This just makes me even more mad about Robert Kirkman. Remember this gem from a few months ago:
Kirkman: “If Valiant Published Walking Dead – No One Would Have Heard Of It”
Dinesh: "I know one person that's heard of @ValiantComics, the guy that ripped off X-O Manowar for Tech Jacket."
Kirkman: "He has a valid argument, but why would anyone want to rip off X-O Manowar? We're all ripping off Iron Man anyway, so no. We draw inspiration from similar things."

Britannia is nothing like Jonah Hex. Not close in a million years. That's a weird comparison IMO.

I think he was just saying that they're similar in that they're both disconnected from the main universe and set in the past.

There really aren't any Marvel /DC analogues to this stuff, and that's kinda the point. New and fresh ideas. FAITH and QUANTUM AND WOODY are probably the closest books to Marvel and DC, both trying to be conventional superheros. If anything Valiant is more like Image comics, IMO. Especially comics like DIVINITY and DR MIRAGE.

But even then, Faith and Quantum & Woody are wholly new for the same reason that they're the closest to Marvel and DC. Q&W is meant to be a parody of superhero stories (as well as buddy-cop movies). Faith is special and different specifically because she's just a regular, every-day superhero who does good things because it's good to do good things, and tries to balance her life while she's at it. You really don't see superheroes like that anymore. Right now, Superman is dealing with either a) his son and family, b) multiversal shenanigans, or c) his ridiculously powerful rogues gallery (not hating, I'm loving Action Comics). Even Spider-Man is nothing like that anymore.


EDIT: Oh, and I loved Future Foorce #1. It really subverted my expectations.

[TheFerg714]

If you had to compare Valiant characters to the "Big 2"'s characters, how would you compare them?

Well, like everyone else has elucidated, there isn't much of a comparison between Valiant and the big 2's characters besides, you know.. superpowers. A couple months ago, I was trying to think of the coolest match-ups for a triple-threat style crossover and this is what I came up with. I italicized the characters I think would win.

Avengers vs. Justice League vs. Unity
(Iron Man, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye) vs. (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern) vs. (X-O, GIN-GR, Livewire, Ninjak, Gilad)
Although I think Aric and GIN-GR would make it exceedingly difficult for the other superteams, I can't imagine Unity would do much good. Ninjak, Livewire, and Gilad could probably handle the less powerful characters (Hawkeye, Cap, Flash, and maybe Hal and Batman), but they'd probably get trounced after that.

Renegades vs. X-Men vs. Teen Titans (Pete would utterly wreck everyone)
(Peter, Kris, Faith, Torque, Flamingo) vs. (Cyclops, Jean, Iceman, Beast, Angel) vs. (Robin, Starfire, Beast Boy, Cyborg, Raven)

The Hulk vs. Superman vs. X-O Manowar
Captain America vs. Batman vs. Ninjak
Wolverine vs. Wonder Woman vs. Bloodshot
Batman Beyond vs. Spider-Man 2099 vs. Rai
Black Panther vs. Hawkman vs. Eternal Warrior
Dr. Strange vs. Zatanna/Constantine vs. Shadowman
Heroes for Hire vs. Booster Gold & Blue Beetle vs. Archer & Armstrong
Suicide Squad vs. X-Force vs. Gen. Zero
Black Widow vs. Batgirl vs. Livewire

Can anyone think of any more/better ideas?

[JediKage]

It depends on how obscure you wanna go.

[RLAAMJR.]

And Vincent Van Goat is like?

[DIVINITY]

I think, I get the gist of it. I'll try your route. The whole premise sounds interesting. That's why I want to get into it.

You won't be disappointed. Great character, and you get the same creative team throughout, #0 is the first issue in the series to have a different artist....

Reading the solicits...Divinity cant save the time stream but Faith can....sure that makes total sense...one is a living God and the other can generate a flight field....
What is next Peter can beat Harada but Faith can?

I know she is popular but much like Ninjak...character should stay in their lane.

Yea, I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out in the issue he appears in...

[TheFerg714]

Yea, I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out in the issue he appears in...

That would be great if they waited until the final issue to finally ask Abram for help and he just destroys the robot within a couple seconds and fixing the timeline like it was nothing.

[JediKage]

Maybe he and Myshka are too busy "breaking in their new love den"

Not to mention its a robot isn't it? Where is Livewire she has had no issue owning advance tech before.