Valiant Universe: Harbinger, Unity, Rai, A&A; current state & future prospects

[scribbleMind]

So here's a question, what's something you think might be lacking from Valiant that you'd like to see? Maybe a tone or genre that isn't being represented, or a character or set of characters that haven't had the limelight.

[reversedeadshot]

I've been into Valiant since like '15 and was wondering - referring to scribbleMind's questions - have they ever done anything horror-related?

I know, they have the character Shadowman... Who's a bit occult/supernatural but have they maybe done anything in the vein of let's say: (H.P.) Lovecraft, (David) Lynch, (David) Cronenberg, (John) Carpenter, (Clive) Barker, etc., though?

[TheFerg714]

I've been into Valiant since like '15 and was wondering - referring to scribbleMind's questions - have they ever done anything horror-related?

I know, they have the character Shadowman... Who's a bit occult/supernatural but have they maybe done anything in the vein of let's say:

Well here's a list of everything supernatural/horror related for starters:

Shadowman and Shadowman: End Times-- I'm not sure how much you've read of it, because I know it's not great, but you should probably check out issues 0 and 10. I wouldn't use the word 'scary,' but they're definitely unsettling and even a little disturbing.
Dr. Mirage-- It's not really that scary, but it's set in the Deadside and has to do with ghosts and stuff.
Punk Mambo 0-- Fairly interesting read here with some dark themes.
Imperium-- There's some definite Lovecraft influences in this one. It's literally about a team of monsters and they're all fairly scary in their own right.
Ninjak, specifically Operation: Deadside

I'm sure I'm missing some if you broaden the definition of horror, but here's the basics I guess. I wish Valiant had a tad more horror-related stuff too. My hope is that the new Shadowman series will be very dark and grimy.

[JediKage]

Fix Shadowman....it says something when the two best issues of Shadowman...starred Master Darque and Marius Boniface/Sandria Darque.

Marius or the alt reality one from the Stalinverse....basically just git rid of Jack somehow...he sucks and he cant be fixed.

[scribbleMind]

I've been into Valiant since like '15 and was wondering - referring to scribbleMind's questions - have they ever done anything horror-related?

I know, they have the character Shadowman... Who's a bit occult/supernatural but have they maybe done anything in the vein of let's say: (H.P.) Lovecraft, (David) Lynch, (David) Cronenberg, (John) Carpenter, (Clive) Barker, etc., though?

Referring to Ferg's list, and this might be odd to say, but I feel like Imperium was Valiant's horror story more so than anything else they've published. It's just so dark, and the stuff Harada allows under his watch is really evil in a way that none of the other villains have portrayed nearly as well. There's some Lovecraft, Cronenberg, and Barker there.

Barker is weird tho. He's famous for horror, but perhaps even more of his stuff is fantasy sprinkled with horror elements. I can see too many titles that could potentially reflect Barker.

To add to his list, Britannia. One more so than two, but they both have a healthy helping of horror elements. That's one of the things I like about the series. You have a detective who doesn't believe in the supernatural, but the answer is always supernatural, just not the supernatural it is selling itself as. None of the other titles really embraces gore quite like Britannia either, not even Bloodshot.

Wrath of the Eternal Warrior, Gilad spent most of his time fighting demons.

Valiant isn't hurting for titles with horror elements, however, they really don't sell these books as horror. That's really sort of interesting. Why not sell the horror elements of Wrath of the Eternal Warrior? It's a popular genre. But I suppose they sell these things based on how the writer views the stories, which is certainly the case with Britannia, and with the exception of Imperium I don't think anyone really views what they're writing as horror. I will say, having it listed out like this, Valiant has definitely done a better job with the genre than Marvel or DC, even if the character at the center of it all had been reduced to rubbish in the process. Ah well, Shadowman 2018. We'll see what they have in store for us.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Fix Shadowman....it says something when the two best issues of Shadowman...starred Master Darque and Marius Boniface/Sandria Darque.

Marius or the alt reality one from the Stalinverse....basically just git rid of Jack somehow...he sucks and he cant be fixed.

Jack did die and get replaced by someone else in the Acclaim shadowman so maybe history could repeat itself???

I do think the magpie stuff could be a way to revitalise Jack because now we can focus on jack as an individual rather than just as a new shadowman.

Id be ok with hudlin taking liberties with Jack in the film because Jack is pretty generic.

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/e...-warrior-movie

[keeen]

Today I caught up on maybe a couple months worth of books, and I'm gonna try to briefly (EDIT: not so brief, as it turns out) summarize some thoughts:

- Secret Weapons #1 & 2: Exceeded my lofty expectations. Allen is my favorite Valiant artist, and he killed it, Livewire is my favorite character, and she's great in a starring role as a leader in this "team," Heisserer is showing a phenomenal ability to lay out interesting, well-rounded characters in just a couple panels. #1 is a close to a perfect comic as I've ever read (IMO, obv) and my only minor quibble with #2 was that it didn't follow up on the cliffhanger of Martin, who I assume got killed? Really, there were too many wonderful moments in the writing and art to list here. Fantastic series so far.

- Rapture #1 & 2: For the first time, I'm interested in the whole Deadside concept. I think Babel is a pretty cool, well-defined villain and I haven't read much with Shadowman and Punk Mambo, so I like this team-up, although Shadowman hasn't been characterized very much to this point. The geomancer's powers are also being defined in a way that makes me think of that character for the first time as more than just a plot device for Gilad. Pretty straight-forward action team-up story, but I like it. Cafu is solid as ever, and de la Torre's pages provided a nice stylistic change for the flashbacks. Valiant is usually pretty smart about how they utilize fill-in artists, which I always appreciate.

- Faith #12: Meh. Disappointing conclusion, I thought, to what was setting up as an epic confrontation with these villains that have been developed over the series. The story kind of ended with a whimper rather than a bang, you know? Is the series ending with this issue? Even more anticlimactic, then. Eisma's art fits the tone well but doesn't blow me away.

- Future Force #1: Pretty ok. I like the repetition of scenes, as it plays with the concept of time travel. I like seeing Neesa again (can anyone remind me where this Ank character comes from? I assume Timewalker, but I don't recall). Segovia is a solid artist for Valiant to add to their stable. I misjudged his stuff when I saw it in Ninjak previews some months ago. The humor here was fairly on-point and a welcome break from some of the doom and gloom of other stories, like...

- Renegades #5: Wow. Devastating, but in a good way. I think it moves the "story" of the universe back in a more "mature" direction with real stakes, while being a good follow-up to Gen Zero, not to mention what I assume was a well-planned contrast to the lighter tone of that series. A lot of us complained about that run as being too childish, but in hindsight, that makes the return to another life or death battle for these kids all the more impactful, to say the least. Roberts is making me appreciate him more than I did with A&A. Robertson's work isn't bad, overall, but there were some panels that stood out for the wrong reasons.

- XO #5: This is the series I'm most likely to drop. I feel like this story could be told with literally any stand-in character. It could be a Hulk story, Lobo, John Carpenter, Conan, etc. It's just really bland to me, despite some fun kind of blockbuster-movie moments. XO seems kind of like an idiot, following orders when he doesn't really agree with them and isn't really in a position where he HAS to follow orders. I also have no conception of how he ended up in this weird galaxy, isn't wearing the armor, why he left his wife on Earth, etc. That stuff seems important to the story, to say the least, and if it was directly addressed in any of the previous four issues, I don't even remember, so that says a lot to me about how much I'm personally feeling the story. Braithwaite's art is pretty beautiful, though, and I definitely would've dropped it already if not for that.

- Bloodshot's Day Off: I wouldn't have got this except that it was $1.99 on comixology. A fairly heartfelt story that could have benefitted from maybe 1 more page of Tank and Viet's conversation with each other at the end to put it over the top in terms of an emotional payoff. Eliot Rahal really impressed me with his A&A tie-in to Divinity III, and I'm looking forward to him getting his own series, hopefully. He seems to have a natural feel for this universe of characters.

Overall, I'm pretty excited about the direction of Valiant right now (which is why I'm posting so extensively; and thanks if you made it this far, lol). I was probably in a lull in terms of my interest, which is why I let these stack up for a while, but looking forward to what they're releasing in August, this is the first month where I'm going to be buying everything they put out. Anyone else this optimistic about their immediate future right now?

Next up for me is Wrath vol 3, Bloodshot USA, and probably Book of Death, which I picked up sometime back and never got around to.

[keeen]

I think FVL's take on generation zero wasn't what they wanted or wasn't appealing to them so they decided to give their money to something else. That's just how the business goes sometimes, not every story appeals to everyone else.

I can't believe the publisher didn't have an approved script, or at least outline, of his story beforehand. It had to be intentional to give the team a lighter tone and thrust them into the new status quo before ripping the rug out in Renegades. If Gen Zero wasn't cancelled it probably only would've run 12 issues (like Faith) and ended up in the same place. Otherwise, you have to believe that they forced Rafer Roberts to completely alter his own plans for that series on the fly, which is really unlikely. If they didn't like the take, they'd just shelve the Gen Zero characters for another couple years and try it again. I'm convinced they wanted Renegades to be doubly shocking because of where we left those kids the last time we saw them. Also, the strength of Heisserer's new psiots probably had a role in making some of the Gen Zero kids expendable.

[keeen]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but as I dove head-on into Valiant over the last year or so and have gained a fuller appreciation of the continuity of the interconnected universe, a few characters have become conspicuous for their absence, so to speak. Of course, I'm referring to Quantum, Woody, and Dr. Mirage. I haven't read these series because, frankly, they're the least necessary (and maybe totally UNnecessary) for following Valiant. Why is that? It was almost off-putting to see them in Valiant High because I've never before seen them in that context, interacting with the other corners of the universe. [I'm aware of the Delinquents mini, which I haven't read]. Is there some element of creator-ownership that prevents them from being fully integrated? (Also, am I forgetting any other characters that are left to do their own thing? I would've said Punk Mambo prior to this Rapture series.)

[ian0delond]

Because they don't need to.

They are nice stand alone stories you can read and enjoy in trade. They can have cameos in other series, but their stories are kept clear for casual readers.

[scribbleMind]

I'd love to see more Dr. Mirage. She was my favorite heroine for a while. She does seem the reclusive type, and as I mentioned before saving the world isn't a goal she's actively after. She was used well when Aric came to her for help before getting remarried. Personal interactions like that may be the best way to bring her in.

Quantum & Woody is simple. They have a very strong tone, and if you were to write them correctly, there is no way to keep their Quantum & Woody-ness from consuming a story. I don't see it. You can't shine a real spotlight on them without them taking it over. If you have one deadpool on a team you can still tell a serious story. This is two deadpools and their goat dad. Naturally they aren't as cartoony as Deadpool, but you get the point. Archer and Armstrong can crossover because the anni-paddi brothers are connected to nearly everything and the original run was a real adventure tale that was also very humorous. Quantum & Woody, personal growth of these two characters aside, is ALL about the humor.

[Shadowras]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08...man-dr-mirage/
Bloodshot salvation is sounding so good, can't wait for the Deadside story.

[JasonTodd428]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08...man-dr-mirage/
Bloodshot salvation is sounding so good, can't wait for the Deadside story.

Bloodshot has been my favorite Valiant character from the get go and this sounds absolutely amazing. I'm looking forward to all of it.

[TheFerg714]

On the recent Only The Valiant podcast, they recorded about 6 different snippets of interviews from SDCC, including Dysart and Dinesh. They all had some very interesting things to say about the future, and I highly recommend you guys check it out, but the standout "announcements" were:
Dysart: His new series will be a continuation of Imperium. He sees Harbinger as chapter 1 and Imperium as chapter 2, and he doesn't feel like chapter 2 has really came to a close yet. Look for his new book hopefully some time in spring 2018.
Dinesh: Basically everything besides the tangential stuff (Brittania, Eternity) will tie in to Harbinger Wars 2 in some way or another, specifically X-O Manowar. He elucidated that the arc following the first 13 issues (Vol. 1- Soldier, Vol. 2- General, Vol. 3- Emperor, Vol. 4- Visigoth) will be (Vol. 5-) Harbinger Wars 2 and will coincide with Aric's return to Earth. F***. YES.

To add to his list, Britannia. One more so than two, but they both have a healthy helping of horror elements. That's one of the things I like about the series. You have a detective who doesn't believe in the supernatural, but the answer is always supernatural, just not the supernatural it is selling itself as. None of the other titles really embraces gore quite like Britannia either, not even Bloodshot.

Wrath of the Eternal Warrior, Gilad spent most of his time fighting demons.

Valiant isn't hurting for titles with horror elements, however, they really don't sell these books as horror. That's really sort of interesting. Why not sell the horror elements of Wrath of the Eternal Warrior? It's a popular genre. But I suppose they sell these things based on how the writer views the stories, which is certainly the case with Britannia, and with the exception of Imperium I don't think anyone really views what they're writing as horror. I will say, having it listed out like this, Valiant has definitely done a better job with the genre than Marvel or DC, even if the character at the center of it all had been reduced to rubbish in the process. Ah well, Shadowman 2018. We'll see what they have in store for us.

Well said. And thanks for bringing up Brittania and 'Wrath.' I knew I forgot some.

I can't believe the publisher didn't have an approved script, or at least outline, of his story beforehand. It had to be intentional to give the team a lighter tone and thrust them into the new status quo before ripping the rug out in Renegades. If Gen Zero wasn't cancelled it probably only would've run 12 issues (like Faith) and ended up in the same place.

It's kind of a mystery. My thinking is that Valiant trusted Van Lente to take the team in whatever direction he wants (although I'm sure they did push for a lighter tone), and the ideas for Massacre came later. I think, before Gen. Zero was officially canceled, Roberts knew what was about to go down and also needed to kill someone, and incorporated it into his book. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think half the team would have been killed off had the ongoing not been a failure. It just so happens that the plot in Gen. Zero kind of fit right into what Roberts and Valiant were trying to accomplish.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but as I dove head-on into Valiant over the last year or so and have gained a fuller appreciation of the continuity of the interconnected universe, a few characters have become conspicuous for their absence, so to speak. Of course, I'm referring to Quantum, Woody, and Dr. Mirage. I haven't read these series because, frankly, they're the least necessary (and maybe totally UNnecessary) for following Valiant. Why is that? It was almost off-putting to see them in Valiant High because I've never before seen them in that context, interacting with the other corners of the universe. [I'm aware of the Delinquents mini, which I haven't read]. Is there some element of creator-ownership that prevents them from being fully integrated? (Also, am I forgetting any other characters that are left to do their own thing? I would've said Punk Mambo prior to this Rapture series.)

Well, for starters, Q&W is coming back in December. I'm not sure if that will integrate them more into the continuity, but it's happening. Secondly, like ian0delond said, it's not necessary. This ain't Marvel. Not every popular character needs to be at the forefront of the universe. Just because Miles Morales is mildly popular doesn't mean he should be showing up in every book and killing Captain America (not a spoiler, I'm not reading Secret Empire, just saw the cover). I think Q&W is an important series for Valiant, so I think they should have some sort of presence in the universe, but I'm okay with that being an ongoing every couple of years. Dr. Mirage on the other hand.. I'm not too much of a fan of. I think her getting a mini-series every once in a while is perfect.

[reversedeadshot]

Random (Valiant) Questions!

Have you ever wondered about some of your fave character's name(s), physical appearance(s), ability(ies), etc., at all?

For examples...

Why does Bloodshot have a large red circle/dot on his chest, exactly? Did I miss something from before, perhaps or am I just having a brain fart??

Can anyone or anything take on Divinity/Abram Adams, 1-on-1?

Is Bloodshot the "most brutal" character in Valiant?