Valiant Universe: Harbinger, Unity, Rai, A&A; current state & future prospects

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Read Shadowman #1 and it was a decent start.

[keeen]

So about Secret Weapons, care to share what's so good about it in your opinion besides the art?

Well, it was one of those books where the art and writing really complemented each other, to be more specific. There were some great backup features that kind of detailed their collaborative process. As a short, self-contained story, I thought it did a really nice job of introducing and clearly establishing several new characters with quirky but interesting powers while telling an emotionally resonant story. I'm also a big Livewire fan and she is prominent in it, not to mention that it tells a smaller-scale Harbinger story that's somewhat tangential to the bigger events in the universe. I don't know if it was as well received by others, but I really liked it.

[TheFerg714]

Oh man, I totally missed some of these posts! Here's my quick answers for you new guys.

I'd like to know the essential of the Valiant comics.

What are the 3 to 5 books (tbp or omnibus / old or new) that I should at least read ?

Okay, first of all, I'm not a huge fanof the 90's stuff, although I will recommend Solar 1-10, and the Unity event. Both are excellent, but I frankly have no interest in anything else that happened back then.

Secondly, that's quite the loaded question. You want me to boil down the last 6 years worth of stories to 5 tpb's? I might be able to do it with Deluxe HC's, but it'd be difficult to get a grasp of the whole universe with only 5 tpb's, unless I recommended exclusively events. Also, most of the best stories are a year or two into their respective ongoings, but you'd kind of need to read the rest of the series to understand what's going on. Keep in mind that there are two "compendiums" coming out very soon, which will include about 30 issues each: X-O Manowar by Venditti Vol. 1 (issues 1-29, Armor Hunters 1-4, and Unity 1-4) and Harbinger Wars (Harbinger 1-14, Bloodshot 1-13, Harbinger Wars 1-4). Regardless, here's my top 12 "essential" Valiant tpb's for newcomers, because I can't pick 5, in chronological order.

X-O Manowar Vol. 1- By The Sword (This is the very first story Valiant published)
Harbinger Vol. 1- Omega Rising (possibly the most critically acclaimed book)
Harbinger Wars (Valiant's first event, Bloodshot and Harbinger tie in)
Archer & Armstrong Vol. 1- The Michelangelo Code (The perfect mix of humor and action)
Unity Vol. 1- To Kill a King (the inception of Valiant's Justice League/Avengers)
Rai Vol. 1- Welcome to New Japan (set in 4001, about a highly technologically-advanced Japan)
Armor Hunters (Valiant's biggest event yet. Spins out of X-O and ties into Unity, Harbinger, and Bloodshot)
The Valiant (a "self-contained" event. It's really epic in almost a fairy tale sort of way. Paolo Rivera's art is something else)
Divinity (Valiant's first brand-new property)
Bloodshot Reborn Vol. 1- Colorado (Jeff Lemire takes a more introspective and raw look at a character that's usually pretty one-note)
Secret Weapons (This came out last year. It's about psiots [mutants] with crappy powers, on the run)
Ninja-K Vol. 1- The Ninja Files (This just ended a week ago, but it's easily the best Ninjak story so far)

Well, it was one of those books where the art and writing really complemented each other, to be more specific. There were some great backup features that kind of detailed their collaborative process. As a short, self-contained story, I thought it did a really nice job of introducing and clearly establishing several new characters with quirky but interesting powers while telling an emotionally resonant story. I'm also a big Livewire fan and she is prominent in it, not to mention that it tells a smaller-scale Harbinger story that's somewhat tangential to the bigger events in the universe. I don't know if it was as well received by others, but I really liked it.

Yea, there really isn't much else to say besides this. It's just supremely well plotted. the characters all feel unique and fully-formed, the dialogue is gripping, the character interactions are believable, the pacing is perfect, and the art... I mean seriously, this is Raul Allen's best work.

[TheFerg714]

Hi fellow Valiant fans.

I've been away from reading and collecting comics for a couple years and now Im looking to catch up from where I left off. Id like your opinions on the quality of the books published from late 2015 to date.

1) Could have been better, 2) still significantly better than the competition, 3) some serious high-spots, 4) a little experimentation, 5) 2016 was rough, 6) 2017 has had very minimal output, but the ongoings have been A+ generally.

Im sure Bloodshot has been great under Lemire,

Yea it has. It has it's ups and downs, but his "reign" on Bloodshot has been nothing but a success.

and I'll bet Rai and the 4001 AD mini by Kindt were great but I wonder about:

I really liked Rai/4001, but it did get progressively worse imo. The event was a little disappointing (although the tie-ins were pretty solid), especially because we haven't seen anything (besides War Mother) out of 4001 since.

Wrath of the Eternal Warrior - did Venditti deliver?

It's good s***. 'Wrath' has become one of those series that Valiant fans tend to hold in high regard. It was cancelled way too early, but unsurprisingly. The sales were crap.

The Divinity follow ups, do the live up to the first mini?

Interestingly worded question... I would say II and III are not as good as the first mini, but that doesn't mean they're bad. They're actually very good.

Britannia, worth reading?

Are you interested in a supernatural-y murder mystery set in ancient Rome, with the world's first detective as the protagonist? Then yea, probably.

My personal opinion... Both mini's are slightly underwhelming, but are definitely worth a read.

A&A, as good as the first series by Greg Pak?

LOL NO! It sucked. It sucked real bad. Too much silly antics and not enough character depth. (and the first series was by Fred Van Lente)

The current X-O Manowar by Kindt should be great, correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh man, it's great. Easily Kindt's most competent, and well though out ongoing yet. This week's issue (the finale of sorts) really sealed the deal for me.

Anything else I'm missing of importance?

Imperium is one of the best comics I've ever read, but you need to read Harbinger first. It's cosmic horror meets superhero meets political intrigue meets world politics meets sci-fi meets intense character study. It's really something special, and every Valiant fan will tell you the same thing.
Kindt's Ninjak was disappointing for me, but Christos Gage's Ninja-K has been really good so far. The first arc just wrapped up and I highly recommend it. It brings Ninjak back from the weird magic stuff that Kidnt was trying to shove into the character, and tells a straight-up espionage story.
Faith. It's not great, but it's fun, and the first trade at least is definitely worth a read. She really is one of the most optimistic characters in comics.
Secret Weapons- Really solid story with the artist from 'Wrath' (Raul Allen) and the writer of Arrival. It's about the psiots with crappy powers that Harada gave up on.
Book of Death- Have you read this? The mini-series itself isn't anything to write home about (although it is quite good), but the tie-ins tell the canonical death of major characters.

So Generation Zero was the Imperium follow up, same level of quality? That and Harbinger before it were among the best current Valiant has published IMO.

Gotta get me Generation Zero. Shame about Renegades.

Okay, slow down! Gen. Zero is NOT an Imperium follow up, and it is NOT the same level of quality. In fact, I would say it was actually quite bad. It took the characters in a totally strange, annoying, and pointless direction. It has it's fans, but DO NOT go into it thinking you're going to get another Imperium. Just so you know, if you do end up reading Gen. Zero, Harbinger Renegade #5 is sort of the conclusion to that story.

Renegade (no 's'), on the other hand, is okay. I enjoyed it for what it was, but it has some very serious, glaring issues. The idea was that Renegade would lead directly into Harbinger Wars II, but who knows if that's going to come to fruition. Honestly, I'd say the first trade is worth a look. If nothing else, it's nice to see these characters back in action, and there are some really epic scenes in there.

[jb681131]

Oh man, I totally missed some of these posts! Here's my quick answers for you new guys.


Okay, first of all, I'm not a huge fanof the 90's stuff, although I will recommend Solar 1-10, and the Unity event. Both are excellent, but I frankly have no interest in anything else that happened back then.

Secondly, that's quite the loaded question. You want me to boil down the last 6 years worth of stories to 5 tpb's? I might be able to do it with Deluxe HC's, but it'd be difficult to get a grasp of the whole universe with only 5 tpb's, unless I recommended exclusively events. Also, most of the best stories are a year or two into their respective ongoings, but you'd kind of need to read the rest of the series to understand what's going on. Keep in mind that there are two "compendiums" coming out very soon, which will include about 30 issues each: X-O Manowar by Venditti Vol. 1 (issues 1-29, Armor Hunters 1-4, and Unity 1-4) and Harbinger Wars (Harbinger 1-14, Bloodshot 1-13, Harbinger Wars 1-4). Regardless, here's my top 12 "essential" Valiant tpb's for newcomers, because I can't pick 5, in chronological order.

X-O Manowar Vol. 1- By The Sword (This is the very first story Valiant published)
Harbinger Vol. 1- Omega Rising (possibly the most critically acclaimed book)
Harbinger Wars (Valiant's first event, Bloodshot and Harbinger tie in)
Archer & Armstrong Vol. 1- The Michelangelo Code (The perfect mix of humor and action)
Unity Vol. 1- To Kill a King (the inception of Valiant's Justice League/Avengers)
Rai Vol. 1- Welcome to New Japan (set in 4001, about a highly technologically-advanced Japan)
Armor Hunters (Valiant's biggest event yet. Spins out of X-O and ties into Unity, Harbinger, and Bloodshot)
The Valiant (a "self-contained" event. It's really epic in almost a fairy tale sort of way. Paolo Rivera's art is something else)
Divinity (Valiant's first brand-new property)
Bloodshot Reborn Vol. 1- Colorado (Jeff Lemire takes a more introspective and raw look at a character that's usually pretty one-note)
Secret Weapons (This came out last year. It's about psiots [mutants] with crappy powers, on the run)
Ninja-K Vol. 1- The Ninja Files (This just ended a week ago, but it's easily the best Ninjak story so far)



Yea, there really isn't much else to say besides this. It's just supremely well plotted. the characters all feel unique fully-formed, the pacing is perfect, and the art... I mean seriously, this is Raul Allen's best work.

Thanks. That's a lot of books I must read for only 6 years. If you compare to the New52 at DC, I would recommend like not more than 10 stories over 52+ titles that are must reads.

Nice Hints those Compendium:

- X-O Manowar Compendium One
X-O MANOWAR (2012) #1–29
+ UNITY (2013) #1–4
+ ARMOR HUNTERS #1–4

- Harbinger Wars Compendium
HARBINGER WARS #1-4
+ HARBINGER #1-14
+ BLOODSHOT #1-13

They condense like 57 chapters for around 100€ total, nice.


If "The Valiant" is a self-contained story, could I read this first to get a good overview of the Valiant Univers ?

[TheFerg714]

Thanks. That's a lot of books I must read for only 6 years. If you compare to the New52 at DC, I would recommend like not more than 10 stories over 52+ titles that are must reads.

Haha, well when you put it that way...

If "The Valiant" is a self-contained story, could I read this first to get a good overview of the Valiant Univers ?

Yes, definitely! It's a nice introduction to Unity, Eternal Warrior, Bloodshot, Ninjak, and the Geomancer, and pretty much every single character shows up at one point or another.

[keeen]

Okay, slow down! Gen. Zero is NOT an Imperium follow up, and it is NOT the same level of quality. In fact, I would say it was actually quite bad. It took the characters in a totally strange, annoying, and pointless direction. It has it's fans, but DO NOT go into it thinking you're going to get another Imperium. Just so you know, if you do end up reading Gen. Zero, Harbinger Renegade #5 is sort of the conclusion to that story.

Renegade (no 's'), on the other hand, is okay. I enjoyed it for what it was, but it has some very serious, glaring issues. The idea was that Renegade would lead directly into Harbinger Wars II, but who knows if that's going to come to fruition. Honestly, I'd say the first trade is worth a look. If nothing else, it's nice to see these characters back in action, and there are some really epic scenes in there.

Yeah, I think I unintentionally overvalued Gen Zero with my response. Ferg is dead on.

Yes, definitely! [The Valiant] is a nice introduction to Unity, Eternal Warrior, Bloodshot, Ninjak, and the Geomancer, and pretty much every single character shows up at one point or another.

That miniseries was MY introduction to the Valiant universe, and yeah it's a good one for spotlighting all the major players.

[keeen]

Ugh. I hadn't seen this until just now.

http://www.thefanboyreview.com/eric-...ars-2-valiant/

[Captain Craig]

I never intended to imply that Generation Zero is the same as Imperium. It seems that is what happened.

I am saying I enjoyed it and unlike Ferg feel it's overly bashed upon. Take that for what you will.

[Ying Ko]

Whoa, Shadowman #1 was great! Very pleased with this after the Milligan trainwreck a few years back.

Also pleased that I finally have another Valiant monthly to pull besides X-O Manowar.

[Yohei72]

Ugh. I hadn't seen this until just now.

http://www.thefanboyreview.com/eric-...ars-2-valiant/

Ugh indeed. Is there any word on whether anything has changed with the planned Harada sequel written by Dysart?

(And does Kindt ever sleep? He's like the Brian Bendis of Valiant.)

[Geralt of Rivia]

1) Could have been better, 2) still significantly better than the competition, 3) some serious high-spots, 4) a little experimentation, 5) 2016 was rough, 6) 2017 has had very minimal output, but the ongoings have been A+ generally.

Cool, but I see some ongoing have been better that others; I want to trim to te must reads.

Yea it has. It has it's ups and downs, but his "reign" on Bloodshot has been nothing but a success.

I figured as much about Bloodshot under Lemire, was just looking for confirmation. Thanks!

I really liked Rai/4001, but it did get progressively worse imo. The event was a little disappointing (although the tie-ins were pretty solid), especially because we haven't seen anything (besides War Mother) out of 4001 since.

I just missed a couple of isuues of Rai when I was forced to drop out and I was loving the book, I'm going to see it thru the end. Even if it decreased quality somewhat at the end.

It's good s***. 'Wrath' has become one of those series that Valiant fans tend to hold in high regard. It was cancelled way too early, but unsurprisingly. The sales were crap.

As a Gilad fan, any above average EW book is work my money and time. so yeah ordering the backissues too.

Interestingly worded question... I would say II and III are not as good as the first mini, but that doesn't mean they're bad. They're actually very good.

Yeah well, Divinity was the only newly introduced character by the time I tuned off. His introduction was mind bending combining the Dr Manhattan concept with 2001 (the movie), if the follow ups are very good I'll def get caught up.

Are you interested in a supernatural-y murder mystery set in ancient Rome, with the world's first detective as the protagonist? Then yea, probably.

My personal opinion... Both mini's are slightly underwhelming, but are definitely worth a read.

First detective? Are you referring to any public domain character? I do love the period supernatural murder mystery description!

LOL NO! It sucked. It sucked real bad. Too much silly antics and not enough character depth. (and the first series was by Fred Van Lente)

You are right it was Van Lente, they work together so often its easy to get the mixed up. My bad. So I'll avoid this book.

Oh man, it's great. Easily Kindt's most competent, and well though out ongoing yet. This week's issue (the finale of sorts) really sealed the deal for me.

Gotta catch up then, XO was always among my favorite Valiant books. I'll just wait for the backissue prices to drop (I am pleasantly surprised that I can get caught up for around $2 per backissue on most Valiant books from late 2015 thru 2016 and early 2017 )

Imperium is one of the best comics I've ever read, but you need to read Harbinger first. It's cosmic horror meets superhero meets political intrigue meets world politics meets sci-fi meets intense character study. It's really something special, and every Valiant fan will tell you the same thing.

Was loving Imperium but missed the last couple of issues, I am ordering them soon. Top notch book indeed.

Kindt's Ninjak was disappointing for me, but Christos Gage's Ninja-K has been really good so far. The first arc just wrapped up and I highly recommend it. It brings Ninjak back from the weird magic stuff that Kidnt was trying to shove into the character, and tells a straight-up espionage story.

Yeah I also wasn't feeling Kindt's Ninjak either, glad to hear it picked up under Gage. Ironically the Kindt early issues are actually worth more than the cover price unlike the rest of the Valiant books.

Faith. It's not great, but it's fun, and the first trade at least is definitely worth a read. She really is one of the most optimistic characters in comics.

Yeah Faith is not my cup of tea by herself without the rest of the Harbinger gang.

Secret Weapons- Really solid story with the artist from 'Wrath' (Raul Allen) and the writer of Arrival. It's about the psiots with crappy powers that Harada gave up on.

Finally I get some details on what this is about, does

Book of Death- Have you read this? The mini-series itself isn't anything to write home about (although it is quite good), but the tie-ins tell the canonical death of major characters.

Yes I did, was actually the last Valiant book I bought before fading out. I think it was great as a "big event"

Okay, slow down! Gen. Zero is NOT an Imperium follow up, and it is NOT the same level of quality. In fact, I would say it was actually quite bad. It took the characters in a totally strange, annoying, and pointless direction. It has it's fans, but DO NOT go into it thinking you're going to get another Imperium. Just so you know, if you do end up reading Gen. Zero, Harbinger Renegade #5 is sort of the conclusion to that story.

Now this is the kind of clarification I was looking for. Thanks for the warning, I'll just skip this then (and I have already preordered Harbinger Wars II - hope it'll deliver)

Renegade (no 's'), on the other hand, is okay. I enjoyed it for what it was, but it has some very serious, glaring issues. The idea was that Renegade would lead directly into Harbinger Wars II, but who knows if that's going to come to fruition. Honestly, I'd say the first trade is worth a look. If nothing else, it's nice to see these characters back in action, and there are some really epic scenes in there.

Alright so its average quality at best, is it important to read to prepare for Harbinger Wars II or can I just overlook it?

[TheFerg714]

I just missed a couple of isuues of Rai when I was forced to drop out and I was loving the book, I'm going to see it thru the end. Even if it decreased quality somewhat at the end.

Hey, it's good, and so is 4001. I don't want to sour your opinion of it, I really enjoyed it overall.

As a Gilad fan, any above average EW book is work my money and time. so yeah ordering the backissues too.

Have you read Unity #16? Might want to get on that if you're into Gilad. Also, I'm sure you've read most of it, but I posted a list of every Gilad story on another thread a few days ago, if you're interested.

First detective? Are you referring to any public domain character? I do love the period supernatural murder mystery description!

Nope. Brand new character. Antonius Axia. I guess I should have said the Valiant U's first detective.

Gotta catch up then, XO was always among my favorite Valiant books. I'll just wait for the backissue prices to drop (I am pleasantly surprised that I can get caught up for around $2 per backissue on most Valiant books from late 2015 thru 2016 and early 2017 )

Well where the hell can you do that? I know of one store in my city that has 50% off back-issues, and they hardly have any Valiant.

Yeah Faith is not my cup of tea by herself without the rest of the Harbinger gang.

Eh, she's not mine either, but I still would urge you to at least check out an issue. She's a breath of fresh air compared to the rest of the Valiant's edgy and morally-gray heroes. I honestly went into every single issue thinking it would be my last, but it always pleasantly surprised me enough to keep it on my pull (excluding Faith and the Future Force).

Alright so its average quality at best, is it important to read to prepare for Harbinger Wars II or can I just overlook it?

If you would have asked me 6 months ago, I would have said yes, for sure, but now no one really has any idea. Renegade played itself off as a prelude to HW2, but it honestly looks like HW2 is going to be more about Unity and Secret Weapons than everything that's been building up in Renegade.

[scribbleMind]

Take this into account. Like Craig, I also enjoyed Gen Zero. In fact, I think quite highly of it. Also like Craig, I don't think it is the same quality as Imperium, but Imperium is one of the best books Valiant has produced so that's a tall order. Now, in truth, this isn't really about Gen Zero or Ferg's opinion of Gen Zero. It's about the fact that you have to change your perspective on recommendations. This is a small thread. That means the opinion of the few active users on the board carry a lot of weight, but we aren't dealing with the kind of numbers where you can actually determine whether something like Gen Zero is objectively good or bad. Not here anyway. There was a time where you could get a healthy number of responses to mesh things out, but this threads activity has shrunk. Early last year before the big relaunch initiative where Valiant wasn't releasing a lot of books. You would look at the solicits and there would be three new issues for that month. I think that's when the activity began to shrink, and it never fully recovered. So, number of active users shrink, the opinions of the active users carry more weight, but don't take it for gospel. In general, we all agree on Valiant's best, no question. That's been proven time and time again whenever someone asks about what they should read, but there are several books, events, and issues: Quantum & Woody, Archer and Armstrong (just because it is a very left leaning book), Savage, Future Force, Generation Zero, Punk Mambo, Dr. Mirage, and some others titles with content that hinges entirely on your tastes. When it comes to recommendations, you need to be able to account for that. For instance, a lot of people don't like Pacific Rim because of the shallow characters, thin plot, and cartoonish humor. As someone who has been a mecha fan his entire life, I LOVE Pacific Rim despite those things because it gave me exactly what I wanted to see. I like horror films. I'm a big fan of mid-to-late 80's/early 90's era horror, so, I will watch something like Re-Animator and I will love it, but there are several people who only watch horror movies to be scared as opposed to being entertained and they will say something like, "This movie sucks, it didn't scare me at all." Happens too often, makes me sick sometimes, as if the horror genre can't be used to express other things, but that's a whole different topic. Get a recommendations, it's a great place to start, we've done recommendations on this board lots of times and there's never been an occasion where someone said, "No. Just go to page xxx," because no one minds it, but afterwards you ought to plug other research and your own tastes into the equation because you may not like Generation Zero, and that's fine, but you might love something else that me, or Ferg, or Craig feel very "meh" about, and never have that experience because you followed the recommendations here too strictly.

[TheFerg714]

@scribbleMind
Well said.

Yea, I definitely wasn't trying to scare anyone away from trying Gen. Zero, just telling my personal opinion.

I think you should definitely get a large selection of opinions, see what tends to show up at the top and bottom, and work from there. I don't want anyone to take my opinion as gospel. Both scribbleMind and Captain Craig liked Gen. Zero, and I was the one guy that hated it. All I wanted to make clear was that it had nothing to do with Imperium.