Valiant Universe: Harbinger, Unity, Rai, A&A; current state & future prospects

[TheFerg714]

Wow, ok normally I wouldn't jump into political talk on our Valiant thread, but it's been so slow lately, and it's tangentially related to Bloodshot Salvation, Faith #5, and the comics industry as a whole, so screw it.

I'm actually pretty liberal myself. I support gay marriage, equality, drug decriminalization, I could go on all day. However, within the last year (and before that, had I been paying attention), the left has gone completely off the rails. I'm not saying Trump is perfect, but it is just silly how easily the left (sorry, I know that's a blanket term, but I don't have a better one) can complain about every little thing that Trump does. Have you seen any of the late night "comedians" lately? Colbert.. Maher (whom I actually quite like).. Noah.. Meyers.. Every single f***king episode's main story is about how awful Trump is. It's just tiresome. Again, I don't have a problem with criticizing Trump, but I do have a problem when it interferes with oh say.. a story in a comic book.
With that being said, my biggest problem with the left, which I (and Captain Craig) have elucidated on, is that they just make s*** up! Nazis and white supremacists are not a problem! When was the last time any of you met someone who legitimately treats people of other ethnicities as second class citizens? I can only think of one, and I'm from the stereotypical "Trump town" in SW Kansas with a population of 4000, and I've lived in the bible belt my whole life.. This myth of these nasty hate groups that are working on taking over the world is just crap. Even Trump thinks so! He's publicly denounced the KKK, alt-right, and white supremacy. What else can he do? No one takes these guys seriously, and when the left focuses on them it *spoiler alert* gives them more of a pedestal than they would've had if they would've just been ignored.

Neither were all the Germans back in the '30s-'40s. However, no one stood up to the nazi minority when it was still a minority and the rest is history. These sickening ideologies need to be dealt with whenever and however possible, so I am more that fine with them coming up in comics, as long as they are handled properly.

And how would that be? I'm fine with lefty themes coming up in comics too, but again, you're acting like it's a bigger problem than it actually is. I don't care whether someone hates black people, or gay people, or trans people, or any other "marginalized" group. Hateful people suck, and their beliefs are disgusting and vile, but fortunately, I live in America, which allows freedom of speech for everyone, not just the people that think they're morally superior. The answer to combating bigots is not to silence them, but to let them speak and everyone can realize at once just how insane these fringe lunatics are. Unfortunately, lately the left tends to equate Nazis with Conservatives, and that's a big factor in why Trump won in the first place. People were/are tired of being called racists and homophobes just for having a different opinion. Everyone, from Hollywood, to the mainstream media paints a picture of conservatives as vile, hate-filled bigots, and it's just wrong. Wrong in the sense that you shouldn't call people Nazis just because they disagree with you, and wrong in the sense that the average conservative is not a hate-filled bigot.

I've no problem agreeing that Trump lacks some decorum.

I like that about him. Although he might be sloppy, he's turning the status quo upside-down, and that's something America desperately needs imo.

He won 3 states Obama did in '08 & '12, those voters didn't suddenly become sexists, racists white supremacists. What I feel TheFerg is saying, and correct me if I'm reading it wrong, is I'd like to just see a lot less politically motivated stories for some time.

Staying VALIANT focused, I will absolutely read Bloodshot:Salvation and see what Lemire plans to do. Thinly veiled political commentary or all up in our faces with an agenda...we shall see.

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's abundantly clear by looking at the actual votes that Hillary lost because a big chunk of Obama voters switched to Trump. It's just a fact.
I truly believe that Salvation will be just as good as Reborn, even with it's political leanings. Hell, Reborn was supposed to be about America's obsession with guns, but I didn't really pick up on that at all. I'm slightly worried, but mostly really excited.

Thought this was kind of a crummy comment from Robert Kirkman.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03...ade-eccc-2017/

I love TWD, but Kirkman is so far up his ass with that statement. He's coming off like the jerk that got lucky and now looks down on all the peasants. I understand that there's definitely positives to having creator-owned content, but comics for the last 60 years (?) have utilized the shared-universe aspect to great success (usually). It's just a different style of comic-book storytelling, and there's nothing wrong with it. They were even hating on Jim Lee! The whole panel just seems like a bunch of has-been assholes (Kirkman being the lone exception). Todd McFarlane, Rob Liefeld, Erik Larsen, Jim Valentino, Marc Silvestri, and Whilce Portacio... These people are coasting on their 90's accomplishments and haven't had a successful book in years. God I'm getting more and more pissed just typing this out. This gives me even more of a reason to not care about Image. Here's the Bleeding Cool quote, if anyone cares:
"Robert Kirkman introduced the Founders panel for the 25th Anniversary of Image Comics where, when they weren’t trash-talking Jim Lee, had Kirkman talking about the benefits of creator-owned comic books. And said that if he’d done the Walking Dead at Boom! then Ross Richie would be sitting on the seats, or if it were Dark Horse then it would be Mike Richardson, or if Valiant published Walking Dead then… no one would have heard of the Walking Dead.”"
How about this? If it wasn't for The Walking Dead, IDW, Dark Horse, Boom, and maybe even Valiant would be bigger right now than Image. TWD is consistently Image's only "huge" book, with a tiny few rare exceptions. Most of Image's output is garbage, and the sales are comparable to Valiant's. Ok I'm done.
EDIT: Holy s***, Dinesh had the perfect response on Twitter:
"I know one person that's heard of @ValiantComics, the guy that ripped off X-O Manowar for Tech Jacket."

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03...er-renegade-5/

God damn this looks incredible. I did not expect to be as into Roberts' Harbinger as I am, but I'm loving the journey so far.

[new_onslaught]

... you're acting like it's a bigger problem than it actually is...

No, I don't. I just realise the potential it has to be a very serious problem. Coming from a country which has neo-Nazis in the parliament (they don't call themselves that, just like the "alt-right"), I tell you it is very easy to go from not having the problem to having it and it is very, very difficult to deal with it at that point.
I agree that the average conservative is not a Nazi-lover, but it's a fact that actual Nazi-rhetoric lovers are very fond of this administration, and that should worry the not-hateful conservatives.

On Valiant's side, Kirkman's comment was a cheap shot. I wonder whether they worry about Valiant taking a portion of the pie from them.

[TheFerg714]

No, I don't. I just realise the potential it has to be a very serious problem. Coming from a country which has neo-Nazis in the parliament (they don't call themselves that, just like the "alt-right"), I tell you it is very easy to go from not having the problem to having it and it is very, very difficult to deal with it at that point.
I agree that the average conservative is not a Nazi-lover, but it's a fact that actual Nazi-rhetoric lovers are very fond of this administration, and that should worry the not-hateful conservatives.

Sure, a portion of Trump's fans are exactly the type of people you're talking about, but it is a very tiny portion that Trump publicly denounces. No one likes these people. No one supports these people. They're fringe and extreme.
I just think it's hilarious that people are so worried about Nazis and white-supremacists when the actual violence is coming from leftist groups like Antifa and Black Lives Matter. Priorities.

On Valiant's side, Kirkman's comment was a cheap shot. I wonder whether they worry about Valiant taking a portion of the pie from them.

Oh, they've got to be. I've been keeping track of Valiant's sales since they began, and while they haven't necessarily jumped in sales at all really, they are extremely consistent. More people learn about X-O, Ninjak, Faith, and Bloodshot every day. Valiant makes a conscious effort to push all of their titles to the forefront, not just one or two. Boom has Power Rangers and WWE; IDW has Hasbro and TMNT; Image has TWD and Brian K. Vaughn; Dark Horse has Whedon and AvP; Titan has Dr. Who; and Dynamite has... stuff? All of these publishers sort of bank on a few properties to hold up the rest of their lineup. If Valiant keeps up what they've been doing for another two years or so (especially with the help of the movies), I think it's inevitable that we'll start to see Valiant move up in the industry.

[Captain Craig]

I think there are two ways to look at Kirkmans comment, there maybe a third.

1-He's at a panel there to celebrate IMAGE's 25th Anniversary, the publisher his books come from, so some bravado is expected. He didn't single VALIANT out either. Was the smack talk necessary, no, but I don't think we should be offended. Frankly, it was "locker room" type talk about the opponents.

2-He was being intentionally disrespectful cause that's how he truly feels about not only VALIANT but Boom and Dark Horse. We should boycott all work by him.

When The Walking Dead debuted('03) it should also be note that IMAGE was really just kind of hanging on with about a 3% market place share. Not bad but it's doubled now partly because of TWD. Dark Horse was doing a bit better but focused on it's SW brand and frankly probably wouldn't have given TWD enough time to prove itself. In 2003 VALIANT(Acclaim) had already gone bankrupt was it wasn't an option for them and even if they hadn't gone under Indie published material wasn't the focus of VALIANT/ACCLAIM anyway.

[TheFerg714]

Ok, two Valiant related things...
1) Matt Kindt says that X-O Manowar will be "hypercompressed"... Whatever that means.
2) Dinesh said that the Valiant Digital panel today (from 4-5pm, pacific) will contain 2 surprise announcements.

I think there are two ways to look at Kirkmans comment, there maybe a third.

1-He's at a panel there to celebrate IMAGE's 25th Anniversary, the publisher his books come from, so some bravado is expected. He didn't single VALIANT out either. Was the smack talk necessary, no, but I don't think we should be offended. Frankly, it was "locker room" type talk about the opponents.

2-He was being intentionally disrespectful cause that's how he truly feels about not only VALIANT but Boom and Dark Horse. We should boycott all work by him.

Well I definitely don't think the answer is boycotting him (just read TWD Vol. 27 last night and it was fantastic), but I think both of these points are correct. Obviously Kirkman deserves some bravado. He helped move the comics industry a little forward and launched a genuine mass media phenomenon. He deserves all the praise he's gotten and is definitely allowed to hate and judge whoever he wants. With that being said, he still comes off like a complete jerk. He obviously thinks that Image is the only "real" publisher and everyone else sucks, including those below him. It was rude and uncalled for. End of story.

[Dark-Flux]

Most of Image's output is garbage,

We can never be pals

[kinggirlfriend]

Yeah there's no need to boycott, it was just a jerky statement. There's stuff I like from every publisher, and while Image may reach higher highs than Valiant, Valiant is just more consistent. But when Lazarus, Prophet (RIP), Injection, Low, etc, and any Brubaker books come out they go to the top of my read pile.

At first I was going to make a dig at Boom, IDW and Dark Horse for coasting on nostalgia type properties but they've each done really great original work too. I just read THE HIT 1955 & 1957 from Boom and it was incredible! I'm also really excited about all the Euro stuff IDW has been putting out, just read another great CORTO MALTESE volume last night.

But what Valiant has done and keeps doing remains really special. A shared universe built on quality where I really want to read every book that comes out. I can't say that about any other publisher. It's like how I used to follow certain record labels because you knew each release was quality even if you never heard of the artist before.

[Dark-Flux]

Idk man, Shadowman was pretty balls. :P

Line-wide quality is also an easier thing to boast when you only publish 5-10 titles a month.

As much as i like Valiant I doubt theyd do any better than Marvel/DC in terms of balancing quality if they were putting out as much content.

[Superman853]

Throwing my thoughts in on this (which might have already been talked about), but Valiant is trying to be more like Marvel and DC in the sense that you come to read the characters that they have. Like I will properly always read Nightwing no matter who is writing/drawing. Whereas Image is all based on the writers/artists. A lot of times I don't read what the books are from Image, i just look for my favorite creators.

[TheFerg714]

We can never be pals

I suppose I was being a little exaggerative due to anger, but I just rarely find myself interested in more than one or two books that Image does. Seems like it's flying blind a lot of the time. Then again, this is coming from a guy that barely reads anything that doesn't have a) superpowers, or b) connected universes, so don't take my word for it.

At first I was going to make a dig at Boom, IDW and Dark Horse for coasting on nostalgia type properties but they've each done really great original work too. I just read THE HIT 1955 & 1957 from Boom and it was incredible! I'm also really excited about all the Euro stuff IDW has been putting out, just read another great CORTO MALTESE volume last night.

I'm not saying that these guys make bad stuff, I was really just comparing the sales figures.

Idk man, Shadowman was pretty balls. :P

Line-wide quality is also an easier thing to boast when you only publish 5-10 titles a month.

As much as i like Valiant I doubt theyd do any better than Marvel/DC in terms of balancing quality if they were putting out as much content.

Yea, but they're intentionally publishing a smaller amount of books than other publishers. They do that specifically to keep the quality high. I think it's actually pretty impressive that Valiant has managed to carve out it's own fairly substantial corner of the market with only 5-10 books a month. I think a big part of Marvel's problems are because of the ridiculous 70+ books a month.
Also, I'm pretty sure kinggirlfriend wasn't saying that everything's perfect, just that (as I've told multiple friends) the ratio between good-to-bad and great-to-good books is just crazy and puts the other superhero universes to shame (including PBS, DynaKey, Top Cow, etc, etc).

[G. Boney]

Fell off on buying Valiant books a year or so ago. Just kept getting further behind on them so finally dropped them off my pull list. Anyway my shop put an XO Manowar preview book in my box this week and I liked what I read so I will at least be getting the first few issues of this relaunch.

[Joshua]

I hope Bloodshot hurts and kills a lot of racist garbage. That book is going to rule.

[kinggirlfriend]

I hope Bloodshot hurts and kills a lot of racist garbage. That book is going to rule.

+ 1!!!!

For 5 years we've had this embarrassment of a human, Trump, question the nationality of the former president, Obama. Trump is endorsed by the KKK. He told the rubes what they wanted to hear and they ate it up. To say the people that voted for him aren't racist is disingenuous at best and delusional at worst.

I feel like this Bloodshot arc will be cathartic for the majority of us. The majority that aren't easily led astray through fear or hypnotized by a game show host talks like a used car salesman. My apologies to game show hosts and used car salesmen.

[new_onslaught]

+ 1!!!!

For 5 years we've had this embarrassment of a human, Trump, question the nationality of the former president, Obama. Trump is endorsed by the KKK. He told the rubes what they wanted to hear and they ate it up. To say the people that voted for him aren't racist is disingenuous at best and delusional at worst.

I feel like this Bloodshot arc will be cathartic for the majority of us. The majority that aren't easily led astray through fear or hypnotized by a game show host talks like a used car salesman. My apologies to game show hosts and used car salesmen.

+ 100
Hat taken off!

[scribbleMind]

Lots of info, some new, some old. Personally, the most surprising to me is that Secret Weapons is an event. And of course, the director of the Bloodshot movies was announced.

http://comicon.com/w/2017/03/05/repo...ars-2-at-eccc/