Valiant Universe: Harbinger, Unity, Rai, A&A; current state & future prospects

[harashkupo]

Received BOOK OF DEATH Deluxe in the mail and have begun to work through it, albeit slowly. So far it's just ok. I liked how Gilad took down Unity. The art while not bad isn't what I would call stellar. The main reason I picked the Deluxe was to get the awesome cover by Rivera. I can't help but feel the series would have been much stronger and be seen more as a proper follow up to THE VALIANT with him on art duties. Feels like a missed opportunity.

I also went ahead and read the synopsis for LEGENDS OF THE GEOMANCER. At first I played with the idea of picking up the issues but after an ebay search and looking at the prices I'm gonna have to pass. The art looks great, much better than the actual BoD mini. The story sounds more interesting. This should have been the main thing. Or maybe a 2 issue prelude before the proper BoD mini. As I get more and more into NuValiant I can't help but get angry about this. The fact that Fred Van Lente wrote it only adds insult to injury. grrrrrrrrr *end rant*

Book of Death was such a huge disappointment. I'm not a fan of Gill's art and the main story felt like a mess. The flash forwards were cool and I loved the tie-ins, but when it comes to Venditti's work, I've been dropping a lot of it lately. There really hasn't been a story of his that I've enjoyed since Armor Hunters, well except X-O: BoD.

[harashkupo]

Nice, I'm gonna have to dig em out and take another look at them! Been meaning to revisit HW for a while, now – this weekend seems like a good opportunity.

Yeah it would be cool to hear what you think of the differences, if any.

[ksbord]

Received BOOK OF DEATH Deluxe in the mail and have begun to work through it, albeit slowly. So far it's just ok. I liked how Gilad took down Unity. The art while not bad isn't what I would call stellar. The main reason I picked the Deluxe was to get the awesome cover by Rivera. I can't help but feel the series would have been much stronger and be seen more as a proper follow up to THE VALIANT with him on art duties. Feels like a missed opportunity.

I also went ahead and read the synopsis for LEGENDS OF THE GEOMANCER. At first I played with the idea of picking up the issues but after an ebay search and looking at the prices I'm gonna have to pass. The art looks great, much better than the actual BoD mini. The story sounds more interesting. This should have been the main thing. Or maybe a 2 issue prelude before the proper BoD mini. As I get more and more into NuValiant I can't help but get angry about this. The fact that Fred Van Lente wrote it only adds insult to injury. grrrrrrrrr *end rant*

Yeah, the main story for BoD did not feel like the main event, more rather a Unity story. What I enjoyed most about BoD were the flash forwards and the tie-ins. Thought the Harbinger and Bloodshot were amazing. Ninjak was great, too, though a little confusing at the outcome. X-O was good, but definitely the weakest of the offerings.

The thing that I still ponder a year later... The flash forwards we saw in BoD the main series don't seem to square up to the combined stories we see in the Fall of tie-ins. One side seems to show a future of complete doom/end of the world, the other shows things way less than complete doom/things may suck but life goes on. I'd go into greater detail, but I'm not sure what the spoiler tags are for this site.

Anyway... if BoD is supposed to reveal the future, how does one reconcile this possible discrepancy?

Discuss!

[harashkupo]

I looked at it like alt universes or what ifs. There was probably an editorial ball drop. To save myself the head ache it's easier to separate the stories from the main universe unless they're directly referenced later on.

[TheFerg714]

I was always under the impression that the future/Braithwaite scenes were of the future that would have happened, had Gilad not brought Tama back from the future, and used her to defeat Master Darque.

I guess I didn't realize that BoD got so much dislike on here... I didn't think it reached the same heights as Harbinger Wars, Armor Hunters, or The Valiant, but I thought it was pretty entertaining nonetheless. I don't remember who said it a few weeks back, but someone on this thread was saying that Robert Gill's art tends to be awesome at the beginning of the arc, and takes a nosedive into mediocrity near the end, and I 100% agree. You can see this in practice with Book of Death and The Kill List. In my opinion, when the guy's on, he's really on. I love his sort of jagged and angry style (strange use of adjectives, I know). I love his hero shots, and when it's good, the facial expressions can be near perfection. On the other hand, I think he gets a little lazy sometimes. Sometimes the body proportions are way off, and there's an apparent lack of any semblance of cinematic storytelling.
Overall though, the main series was above average for me. I really liked it, and wasn't disappointed in the slightest (besides some of Gill's stiff artwork in issue 4), but it was pretty basic to be honest. The 'Fall of' books, on the other hand, were just fantastic. X-O made me cry, Bloodshot gave me the existential feels, Ninjak paved the way for the future in Rai, and Harbinger was a beautiful send-off to some great characters. And finally, Legends of the Geomancer was just bleh. Nothing special. Unnecessary, and the weakest Ryp art I've seen so far.

[harashkupo]

You know it would be really cool if someone asked Venditti and Braithwaite to expand on the flash forwards as a 4 part mini. That would make an amazing book. There's a serious amount of untapped potential with the actual in universe Book of Death. I doubt I'm the only one who would throw all my money at them if it were to hit the stands. I mean come on, when are we going to get answers to the Bloodshot Hound?

[ksbord]

I wrote a treatise over on Valiant Fans on my opinions about the future(s) revealed during Book of Death and the Fall of tie-ins. I'll go look for it later and post it here, but my short nickel version is this. SPOILERS BELOW:

The future seen in the main mini-series will not come to pass as predicted in the Book of the Geomancers. That future is presented to serve another purpose.

I liken it to the plot of the original Terminator movie. Kyle Reese was sent back in time by John Connor believing his job was to protect Sarah Connor from the Terminator. What he didn't know was that he was going to end up being John Connors father, and there was more to his being sent back then he knew.

Likewise, Tama was sent back in time by Gilad at the end of The Valiant, and we thought it was simply to get her away from the Immortal Enemy sometime in the future. And while that was true, there was more to it than that. Gilad was also sending her back to counter Master Darque trying to steal David's powers. Enclosed in the Book was a grim "prophecy" of what might come to pass if Darque was not countered. Sprinkle in enough "vague but true" glimpses of the future for legitimacy, and you have Gilad from the future sending a message to Gilad in the present. Not a "this is going to happen" but a "this might come to pass if you don't do something."

The Fall Of tie ins, however, are showing various glimpses of what will actually happen. Not to say we won't see some things glimpsed in Book of Death main series, but the Fall Ofs are legit future. We're already seeing Valiant telling tales from the tie ins, both in Rai and the 4001 AD event as well as the upcoming Fist and Steel arc of Ninjak.

More to come, but this kind of stuff fires me up, and is one reason I think Valiant is great! See what I did there... looped it back around to another discussion. That's some forum kung-fu, there, my friends!

[harashkupo]

[ksbord]

Everyone reading Rai... Read issue #14, then go back and reread issue #11.

Iiiiiiiiiinteresting....

[TheFerg714]

Everyone reading Rai... Read issue #14, then go back and reread issue #11.

Iiiiiiiiiinteresting....

Yea I didn't think about that (obvious) connection until listening to OTV.

[Inhuman X]

Based on comments here and at VF, I have never taken the time to read the Book of Death as I want to spend on the good stuff and talk about it. I have been frightened off of it. Few more days until my next comic book load up.

[harashkupo]

Based on comments here and at VF, I have never taken the time to read the Book of Death as I want to spend on the good stuff and talk about it. I have been frightened off of it. Few more days until my next comic book load up.

I didn't like it but it's not horrible. The glimpses of the future are great and the one-shots are top quality.

[ksbord]

Based on comments here and at VF, I have never taken the time to read the Book of Death as I want to spend on the good stuff and talk about it. I have been frightened off of it. Few more days until my next comic book load up.

There might be beef on the quality of BoD as an event, but there can be no argument that it is a must read to learn where things in the Valiant Universe are going. At the very least, the Fall of the Valiant Universe trade should be read!

[TheFerg714]

Today was a pretty great day for Valiant comics. Neither books really went anywhere wholly unexpected, but damn they were awesome. I was skeptical of X-O's new artist, but after just a few pages it was immediately apparent that they picked this guy for a reason.

There might be beef on the quality of BoD as an event, but there can be no argument that it is a must read to learn where things in the Valiant Universe are going. At the very least, the Fall of the Valiant Universe trade should be read!

Agreed. And contrary to most people's opinions (apparently) I think it was a lot of fun. Even if it is below average, I think it was a must read honestly.

[Aomalle27]

Sadly I'm dropping Valiant altogether. What with Imperium ending, XO ending, the previews for Brittannia not really drawing my interest, nor the teasers for Savage. 4001 has been disappointing to my tastes, and Faith and the rebooted A&A are just really drivel (again to my tastes, not a blanket statement, if you like em great). Of course I've also had to drop out of Valiantfans forums as well; you can get some real great insights and debate from about 99% of the folks on there; but there's that 1% douchebaggery that tries to impart their will on everyone else; and heaven forbid you express an opinion counter to theirs. Hell I had a guy insist my opinion was wrong, and he cites reviews and fan forums being the ultimate comeuppance to my take. Hey that's great some people have a differing opinion, but reviews and fan forums are just opinions....not facts. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. But that's the rarity on the VF forums, mostly you'll get lively debate, and some great pieces like the recent Jim Shooter interviews by
Two of the users. JMatt and Knobrow, two excellent individuals. To them and all like them I say cheers, and hoping their passion for comics never dies. To the 1% like DBS, I say stuff it, learn to accept criticism and move on, everyone's entitled an opinion.