Marvel Comics Outs All-New X-Man

[kevinism]

That comics alliance article is perfect.

[Emerald_616]

The best part of all of this, is that I re-read X-Men #1 from 1963 a few days ago, and Bobby was the only one NOT hitting on Jean as soon as she entered the school. And don't get me started on the homoerotic overtones between Bobby and Hank in the original 60s comics.

Did Willow from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" realizing she was gay invalidate the affection and relationships she shared with Xander and Oz? Does it mean she didn't actually appreciate them for who they are, and that the same must be true of Bobby with regard to Opal, Lorna, Kitty, etc.? Does a person in a heterosexual relationship realizing that this relationship isn't what they want and later starting a new heterosexual relationship invalidate the experiences, affection and growth that was shared in the previous relationship? Does only the sexual orientation and specific person you end up with at death matter? Is it not terribly insulting to suggest any of that?

Everything along the way counts.

This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever read! Thank you!

Very validating to bi/pan/poly, and really any such relationship configuration and romantic human path one can walk.

[Iron Fist]

I get how everyone has decided they're from different realities already.

As far as the comic has shown, they're both from the 616 so they're the same Bobby so if younger Bobby is gay then older Bobby should be as well.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Why?.........

Because we might catch the gay.

[Rotm]

I don't think that he was pretending. I could buy it if he were in highschool or college and had to act like that to impress his buddies and not let out that he is gay. But at that time Bobby is a full fledged adult and X-Men. He is belongs to a group of people who are accepting and who would be sympathetic to him if he were to come out. Which is why I don't buy the fact that he is gay or closeted. It's just wishful thinking by some readers.

Stop using logic it makes perfect sense. In Marvels condensed time line young Bobby from like 2006 is totally like 1963 and Xavier certainly seems like the kind of guy who would be a homophobe.

[America / Bucky / Russia]

I understand that, but he shouldn't be in a position where he's required to deny or confirm anything. They aren't dating, his sexual identity has nothing to do with her. It shouldn't be an issue for anyone to force.

They're friends, so it's relevant. But yes, she shouldn't have forced it; as Kalen says she should have dropped hints. Maybe in five months and he still hasn't pegged onto it she can be more direct.

I wonder if Fox is going to try to capitalize on this for the new X-Men. Different timeline, so different rules. No reason they can't introduce a young gay Robert Drake.

I would love this, although Iceman was introduced as a teenager and a main character (unlike Jubilee who was teenage and a background character, and Angel who was presented as an adult) so not sure if that would work. Maybe we can even give him an on-screen boyfriend? It would be great to finally have a gay superhero on screen (besides the Pied Piper as a villain in the Flash and the odd cartoon with Northstar.)

Isn't there a panel in X-Men(1963) #1 where Jean is introduced and Slim, Hank and Warren hit on her and Bobby doesn't care? People used that as evidence that Bobby was gay. I hate that.

Yep, Jean isn't everybody's type and not everyone wants to creepily male gaze on a friendly girl you've just met. Plus he could be equally asexual.

Was bisexuality even a concept people knew about in the 60s?

I'm pretty sure the first attempts to define sexuality as terms were made in the 1800s, but I don't believe bisexuality was a part of that. It certainly was at least a known thing when Kinsey was doing his research during the 1950s, although it might not have been necessarily called bisexual, just a number on the scale. However 'gay' is used far more commonly as a term than bisexual, especially during the 60s when less was known about sexual identity than is known today.

What if Jean, of the Professor are revealed to perform the controversial (and horrible) gay conversion therapy, by mind-controlling Bobby at some point in the timeline so far into the closet that he never would come out again, and be the adult, over-compensating one?

Because holy ****, whatever character does such a thing will be the most detestable one in the Marvel Multiverse for some time.

No. Just no. That would be "never read a Bendis book again" level of offensive, especially given there are people who have undergone conversion therapy and either been severely psychologically damaged or died.

Another thing: this 15-ish Bobby Drake has probably never had sex with ANYBODY, male or female. 616 Bobby might have been attracted to other guys as a teenager, but then once he had sex with a woman he found he liked it.

Whilst it's true sexuality is not necessarily tied to who you have or had sex with, sexual identity is a lot more than just "HEY I SLEPT WITH A CHICK I'M PROBABLY STRAIGHT OR BI." Although it would be an interesting narrative point to explore if Bobby maybe does have sex to prove his sexuality, but if it makes him realise he's straight that would be the wrong approach. For him to realise he's bi could be interesting though if executed well. But my mum made the same stupid argument "well how do you know when you've never been with a girl?" Well sometimes you just know.

I was under the impression that the Sliding timescale literally moves the start date of when the characters first debuted. History still happens, but for example, Captain America was unfrozen in the late 90s-turn of the millennium rather than the 60s. I think it's been documented in regards to Iron Man and the Punisher that the wars they helped fund/fight in aren't the same ones as when they first debuted (Vietnam or whatever). Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Yeah, a lot of flashbacks and origin retellings have opted for the contemporary setting - see Slott's Learning to Crawl and Brubaker's Captain America, for example. However Bendis seems to approach it differently, from the perspective of a compressed timeline. Which would really mean Christmas happens like three times a year. So in Mighty Avengers, Bendis had a two issue flashback to the 1970s comic era featuring Sentry, and it looked exactly like a 1970s comic book, with 1970s cultural references intact. My theory is that for the characters living back then it was the 60s, but when a character remembers those events from the present or time travels back there, it's framed relative to the character's contemporary present. But y'know, suspension of disbelief and all that.

I saw some of the ‘arguments’ on the that Bobby was gay, mostly having to do with the fact that he’s had unsuccessful relationships with women. Well so has Bruce Wayne/Batman (and someone mentioned above) and Tony Stark. Are we going to have stories declaring them gay now too? Having an unsuccessful relationship has nothing to do with someone’s sexual orientation. It has to do with personality and a willingness to make things work. Bobby has always had self-esteem insecurity issues, that kind of stuff tends to repel people. Further how many SH comic book characters have had long term relationships?

I agree with this, although Iron Man and Batman are more high profile so a sexuality retcon would never happen. Plus they're both playboy billionaire types and very much the womaniser, which Bobby hasn't really been presented as. But I agree, just because he hasn't had a strong relationship doesn't mean he isn't attracted to girls. Relationships are hard.

That's the exact same thing I thought when I saw the pages of art. I've given him several chances on several different titles and I've had to drop all of them because it's always the same old crap. Wasted pages full of blabbering that never really advance the plot at all. He's probably written thousands of pages for Marvel but I'm sure that several hundred of them at least could be removed with no impact to a reader's understanding of the story.

If it advances the character arc, it's relevant.

I suspect SW is the only reason Marvel let Bendis do a big reveal like this on one of the 05, even the itty time-travel version. And he's off the X-Books in a couple of months anyway, which means this is likely to be dropped even if it carries over.

There are plenty of things retcons and events can reverse. But sexual orientation is not one of them. It would be insulting to be "nah, he's gay!" and suddenly turn around and be like "it's a different universe! He's straight!"

I have to wonder if Bendis realizes that a person's Hotness or cuteness has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality. Chris Evans or Scarlett Johansson are considered hot or cute by both genders as well as sexual preference.

In theory it has nothing to do with it, but I have had conversations where I've said similar stuff to that. So Bendis is just trying to add some naturalistic conversation (although not perfectly.)

[Vallant]

Did Willow from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" realizing she was gay invalidate the affection and relationships she shared with Xander and Oz? Does it mean she didn't actually appreciate them for who they are, and that the same must be true of Bobby with regard to Opal, Lorna, Kitty, etc.? Does a person in a heterosexual relationship realizing that this relationship isn't what they want and later starting a new heterosexual relationship invalidate the experiences, affection and growth that was shared in the previous relationship? Does only the sexual orientation and specific person you end up with at death matter? Is it not terribly insulting to suggest any of that?

No it doesn't, in fact, the situation between Willow and Bobby is only really similar in that how they were handled is paramount to a form of bisexual erasure; which is kinda insulting.

[dragonmp93]

I get how everyone has decided they're from different realities already.

As far as the comic has shown, they're both from the 616 so they're the same Bobby so if younger Bobby is gay then older Bobby should be as well.

Well, i think that Adult Iceman is going to be bi instead; but given is so in the closet that he found Narnia.........................................

[Narasinha]

I get the feeling that this ultimately won't effect adult Bobby. I think adult Bobby will continue to be straight but they'll continue to explore young Iceman's homosexuality. They'll probably chalk it up to being alternate timelines, especially sense the overarching thing of Marvel Now is alternate realities colliding. It'll be annoying and stupid, but that's how they always handle X-MEN time travel stories.

Teen Bobby's preferences affecting adult Bobby is the least of the worry. If the O5 knowing the future, having new powers, never going back to the past(?) wont affect the present, then I guess the present can deal with Bobby's sexuality just fine.

[Askani's Flame]

That comics alliance article is perfect.

Yes that was pretty dead on for me.

I also enjoyed this article as well: http://bisexual-books.tumblr.com/pos...ries-in-comics

[Teste]

Well it's the end of Bendis' run and strikes me as more of a stunt that he did to get attention...as it could all be undone by Secret Wars anyway...

That. It feels more like Bendis being desperate for attention after his X-Men run went nowhere than a well thought character development.

I remember reading that Marvel was "breaking its toys" - as in, making big changes (black Captain America, dead Wolverine, dead Deadpool, Thor unworthy, Iron Man evil, etc), knowing they would undo nearly everything after Secret Wars. This feels like one of those changes for the sake of making Bendis' run actually relevant for a few months.

[Luck911]

Well in reading in more on this Bendis seems to hint at a follow up .So i well reserve comment till then but Bendis comments seem to hint at them dicussing adult Iceman being in closet so at least either way it will have conclusion so i am happy for that.

[Rotm]

That. It feels more like Bendis being desperate for attention after his X-Men run went nowhere than a well thought character development.

I remember reading that Marvel was "breaking its toys" - as in, making big changes (black Captain America, dead Wolverine, dead Deadpool, Thor unworthy, Iron Man evil, etc), knowing they would undo nearly everything after Secret Wars. This feels like one of those changes for the sake of making Bendis' run actually relevant for a few months.

You don't write an Iceman story if you wannabe relevant.

[Spider-Prime]

I'm more surprised that Iceman didn't turn out to be transgender. I'm still waiting for some creative team to make a popular hero turn out to be transgender. I'm going to go with Wolverine.

[dragonmp93]

That. It feels more like Bendis being desperate for attention after his X-Men run went nowhere than a well thought character development.

I remember reading that Marvel was "breaking its toys" - as in, making big changes (black Captain America, dead Wolverine, dead Deadpool, Thor unworthy, Iron Man evil, etc), knowing they would undo nearly everything after Secret Wars. This feels like one of those changes for the sake of making Bendis' run actually relevant for a few months.

Well, if that happens, then specially this one is gonna create pretty fireworks.

And i dont know, but Teen Iceman has been pretty asexual; Tyke and Teen Angel has showed interest is a couple of girls and Teen Beast is really grateful of the existance of the yoga pants............................................. ..............................