Jean Grey: LGBT ALLY or ENEMY?

[Iron Fist]

Okay...

but she can choose to confront people about their personal feelings.

And actually Jean can work towards having the choice to hear people's thoughts or not if she trained better.

And until she reaches that level of training, it's all people's thoughts all the time.

Jean's mistake was bringing this up to him and being a bit pushy until he accepted the truth.

Jean's mistake was not hearing his thoughts against her will. You can't blame Jean for that anymore than you can blame Iceman for being gay.

[ButterRum]

And until she reaches that level of training, it's all people's thoughts all the time.

Jean's mistake was bringing this up to him and being a bit pushy until he accepted the truth.

Jean's mistake was not hearing his thoughts against her will. You can't blame Jean for that anymore than you can blame Iceman for being gay.

No one here is blaming Jean for reading people's thoughts.

[Timbales]

Then why compare her to someone who actively seeks out private information like a creep when Jean is literally someone who has no choice but to hear that information on a daily basis?

Because she's been shown actively invading other people's thoughts and not caring about people's privacy when she mentally 'overhears' something.

[Marvelboy1974]

If that is what you think then you know NOTHING about JEAN. She isn't that type of person. For all of her mistakes she has never been a vindictive person who goes out of her way to know all your secrets in hopes of using them against you. You are just hating for the sake of hating.

Jean's the kind of friend who would go through your laptop, phone or journal and then confront you on your personal thoughts in the interest of 'helping you'.

[Iron Fist]

No one here is blaming Jean for reading people's thoughts.

A lot of people actually are.

There are a lot of comments about her being a creep by listening or snooping through his private thoughts.

[ZephyrSurf]

Oh, I'm not comparing her to an anti-gay Republican. I'm comparing intentions.... most people have good intentions, but that doesn't mean it makes it right.

Nobody said what she did was right. That doesn't give you clout to use an extreme example as a justification. The point was that she was intrusive and pushy, but not an inherent enemy to the LGBTQ cause.

You turn this into a point comparison to an extreme wing of a particular party's ideology. it's just shy of a nazi comparison in how disingenuous it is.


Cause there's a lot of hate groups that think they're doing the right thing. Most people do.

[Iron Fist]

Because she's been shown actively invading other people's thoughts and not caring about people's privacy when she mentally 'overhears' something.

Listening is not invading. It's passive, invading is active.

And you've already stipulated that she can't control what she hears, so you've mooted yourself.

[ButterRum]

If that is what you think then you know NOTHING about JEAN. She isn't that type of person. For all of her mistakes she has never been a vindictive person who goes out of her way to know all your secrets in hopes of using them against you. You are just hating for the sake of hating.

[Timbales]

If that is what you think then you know NOTHING about JEAN. She isn't that type of person. For all of her mistakes she has never been a vindictive person who goes out of her way to know all your secrets in hopes of using them against you. You are just hating for the sake of hating.

I never said anything about being vindictive.

[ButterRum]

Nobody said what she did was right. That doesn't give you clout to use an extreme example as a justification. The point was that she was intrusive and pushy, but not an inherent enemy to the LGBTQ cause.

You turn this into a point comparison to an extreme wing of a particular party's ideology. it's just shy of a nazi comparison in how disingenuous it is.


Cause there's a lot of hate groups that think they're doing the right thing. Most people do.

Well that escalated quickly. You are basically comparing Republicans to Nazis now.

Also, Republicans are extreme right wing? Eh, we have a two-party system. They are just right wing, which is unfortunate. If only Republicans were viewed as extreme, then maybe we wouldn't have any in office!

[Timbales]

Listening is not invading. It's passive, invading is active.

And you've already stipulated that she can't control what she hears, so you've mooted yourself.

Listening is passive. Acting on what you hear is not.

[ZephyrSurf]

Well that escalated quickly. You are basically comparing Republicans to Nazis now.

You honestly thought that was a comparison of the republican party to Nazis? It wasn't.

[ButterRum]

You honestly thought that was a comparison of the republican party to Nazis? It wasn't.

You told me I was shy of comparing Jean to Nazis because I compared her to Republicans. But I was not even comparing her to Republicans. I was comparing her good intentions to a Republican's "good" intentions. People defend her actions because of her good intentions, but sometimes intentions hardly matter...

[Marvelboy1974]

It isn't that she doesn't care about someone's privacy, it's that she feels that her help in this instant with Bobby can help him to come to terms with who he is to avoid making the same mistakes his adult self has made. Let me put it to you this way. If one of Jean's friends was suicidal and didn't tell anyone but she could sense it, should Jean just let that person be and kill him/herself, or should she intervene and do something or not? ALL telepaths have used their powers to invade privacy at one point or another without permission whether it has been shown on panel or not. Has anyone read the Firestar mini series? Has everyone forgotten how extreme Emma to the point where her subordinates where afraid to think anything negative about her less they feel her wrath? People are making it seem like Jean is going out of her way to invade other's minds. Yes, what she did with Warren was wrong. But she learned that it is not right to do such a thing. And there is a difference between invading someone's mind and unintentionally picking up someone's thought. Can you imagine if YOU were a telepath? Not so sure you or anyone would be all that different from Jean.

Because she's been shown actively invading other people's thoughts and not caring about people's privacy when she mentally 'overhears' something.

[Iron Fist]

Listening is passive. Acting on what you hear is not.

Then criticise her for that instead of comparing her to someone actively trying to discover private personal information by choice.