Jean Grey: LGBT ALLY or ENEMY?

[ButterRum]

For all we know, Bobby didn't know he was gay until Jean told him. We all believe he is gay now because Jean read his mind and believes he is gay. So Bobby is gay, according to Jean.

[Iron Fist]

For all we know, Bobby doesn't know if he is gay or not. But we all believe he is gay now because Jean read his mind and believes he is gay. So Bobby is gay, according to Jean.

Bobby is gay according to Bobby's thoughts via Jean.

[Narasinha]

because it reads as Jean manipulating his thought or a very creepy invasion of privacy without care, and the only reason they hugged at the end is because the writer willed it. and it has nothing to do with real life but knowing how to tell a story which Bendis failed and it just looks lazy.

So the parts that justify your hate for a character are good writing. And the parts that invalidate your arguments are just the result of the author bad writing?

Choose: Either all is bad writing and then nothing is Jean's fault. It's all Bendis'. Or nothing is bad writing and Jean was right because the result was the best one and Bobby is fine with her.

Don't try to hide your hate behind pseudo justification.

[ZephyrSurf]

The bi-erasure thing is just oversensitivity I think.
Her main criteria for being an ally is that she is supportive of Bobby being gay and has shown she wants him to be himself and be happy. Short of throwing in legalise gay marriage politics, she's the same as any other ally.

She just hasn't got much tact in how she goes about supporting him.

I wasn't referring to the bi erasure thing with that post, it was more about nothing she did is particularly benefitial to the entire community, to bobby, sure, but the entire gay community? ehhhh

[Iron Fist]

I wasn't referring to the bi erasure thing with that post, it was more about nothing she did is particularly benefitial to the entire community, to bobby, sure, but the entire gay community? ehhhh

A non LGBT person helping someone who is struggling with their sexuality is helping the community because it removes stigmas.

So she is helping the community, and she's doing it through one person's road to self acceptance. That's perfectly valid.

[ZephyrSurf]

A non LGBT person helping someone who is struggling with their sexuality is helping the community because it removes stigmas.

So she is helping the community, and she's doing it through one person's road to self acceptance. That's perfectly valid.

My issue with it is due to the inherent fact that it is bobby, who is her friend first and foremost. I'd say it leans her towards an ally, but not inherently makes her one.

[Iron Fist]

My issue with it is due to the inherent fact that it is bobby, who is her friend first and foremost. I'd say it leans her towards an ally, but not inherently makes her one.

Her behaviour shows her to be an ally, she was completely understanding and supportive. That's the definition of ally.

[Narasinha]

The Republicans say they are tolerant and don't intend to hurt people, but they are against gay marriage and hurt the LGBT community.

Your point? They say one thing but do another? They are insincere? That's what you wrote. But that doesn't apply to Jeen. She isn't insincere. She is doing everything she can to help her friend. Maybe that's not the good way. Maybe that's not her business. Maybe she shouldn't care. Or maybe not. If we accept that she read his thought, whatever voluntarily or just couldn't help herself to overhear them. then we have to accept that she was also in the best position to determine what Bobby's needed. Which mean the positive result and Bobby's being fine with Jeen is not just the result of Jeen's good luck.

[Park Slope Pixie]

when has she ever shown the ability to be an ally to anyone? Jean looks out for Jean. Everything else is secondary.

[Narasinha]

Jean's the kind of friend who would go through your laptop, phone or journal and then confront you on your personal thoughts in the interest of 'helping you'.

You do get that she can't not hear people's thoughts right? She's not actively choosing to listen,

Yes, that is known

So why do you keep using those fallacies over and over to justify your hate of a character? Use real reasons instead of making false ones. That way your opinion will have a lot more weight.

[Iron Fist]

when has she ever shown the ability to be an ally to anyone? Jean looks out for Jean. Everything else is secondary.

I think you're confusing an ally and an martyr.

[Timbales]

I don't hate Jean. If you guys want to make excuses for violating a person's privacy, knock yourselves out.

[Iron Fist]

I don't hate Jean. If you guys want to make excuses for violating a person's privacy, knock yourselves out.

How is her telepathy an excuse?

[Narasinha]

I could accidentally pick up a friend's diary but I wouldn't tell them I found a big secret and then confront them about it.

Yeah, you would prefer to be a coward and not tell him/her that you learned something that you shouldn't have. That you are sorry but it couldn't be helped and now, done is done.

And just to make things a little less clear-cut: What if you accidentally learn that your friend is having a nervous breakdown and could be thinking (nothing sure) about committing suicid? You don't try to talk to him/her? (And I am not even talking about warn a 3rd party like his/her parents)

[ButterRum]

That encounter wasn't premeditated. Jean chose to invade EMMA's mind AFTER she caught her in the psychic affair as a way of teaching her a lesson. It wasn't "let me invade Emma's mind so I can use it against her if she ever crosses me." That's not how Jean is.

You don't know anything about Jean. Her anger issues and blow-ups are what make her...not a boring character

I don't hate Jean. If you guys want to make excuses for violating a person's privacy, knock yourselves out.

I don't hate her either. I just said she is not a boring character. The most boring characters are the ones everyone is indifferent to and nobody talks about.