What's the worst retcon you've read?

[Kieran_Frost]

Correct me if I am wrong (and I may be) - but the Bobby from ALL NEW X-MEN does NOT have different set of experiences than the adult Bob.

Because if I remember correctly, Beast specifically states he pulled the younger version of themselves from their own reality (thus pulling younger versions of themselves from the 616 reality), so that means Young Bobby has not experienced anything Adult Bobby has.

He has a different set of experiences in the sense he is now living in a time/world where many people are open about their sexuality. It will change how he feels/reacts to feelings he has. Back when he was young he wouldn't considering anything he felt to be unusual, or realise what a glance or a thought meant. No-one said men loved men when he grew up, so it's a totally different world (and creates different realisations). They WERE the same person with the same experiences, but then it all changed when Beast brought 05 Bobby forward in time, to a world he doesn't need to fear being himself.

[Carabas]

Well they were then they weren't and then they were lol

Originally the claws were part of the suit, then they decided they were coming from inside his body, put there by weapon x and then they decided bone claws were psty of Wolverine's mutation.

But they left a lot of this vague (as far as I'm aware) so is it a retcon if the creator's intentions changed but they had never specified on the page beforehand?

Wolverine 1.0 wasn't even a mutant. He was an actual wolverine super-evolved by the High Evolutionairy.

[Adam-X]

Wolverine 1.0 wasn't even a mutant. He was an actual wolverine super-evolved by the High Evolutionairy.

Well technically since that was never said in comics, but only in an interview, that's technically not a retcon. Just an idea that never saw publication.

[Kuwagaton]

But it was explicitly referenced in the comics, so there's that.

He has a different set of experiences in the sense he is now living in a time/world where many people are open about their sexuality. It will change how he feels/reacts to feelings he has. Back when he was young he wouldn't considering anything he felt to be unusual, or realise what a glance or a thought meant. No-one said men loved men when he grew up, so it's a totally different world (and creates different realisations). They WERE the same person with the same experiences, but then it all changed when Beast brought 05 Bobby forward in time, to a world he doesn't need to fear being himself.

If it's now an alternate Bobby, that itself is a retcon from what Bendis established. If it's still the exact same guy, as established, then that is a little weird. That would mean the past he's from is around 2002, and being out wasn't especially more dangerous than it is in the present.

It would also mean that both versions have to be gay, or else his sexuality is a result of time travel.

[Iron Fist]

But it was explicitly referenced in the comics, so there's that.



If it's now an alternate Bobby, that itself is a retcon from what Bendis established. If it's still the exact same guy, as established, then that is a little weird. That would mean the past he's from is around 2002, and being out wasn't especially more dangerous than it is in the present.

It would also mean that both versions have to be gay, or else his sexuality is a result of time travel.

I think Bendis ignored the sliding time scale on this one, it's almost explicitly stated they are from the 60s.

And he's not from an alternate reality, he's from their past, the fact when young cyclops 'died' it affected older cyclops, it shows they are still connected by the mortal coil of this timeline. So both Bobby's are gay, older Bobby just suppressed it due to the time in which he was growing up.

[The Fury]

Okay, so this has turned into the same debate we've been having time and time again. Look, just because someone doesn't like the retcon that Iceman, who has never been gay in any work of Marvel (non-fan) fiction until very recently (and only the young one), doesn't mean it's not a retcon. Retcon in it's very definition is a change is established fact of historical continuity.

Iceman was never gay, now is. So a retcon. Stop trying to turn this into a battle. Let people be angry at it.

By saying it is not a retcon and just hidden facts means EVERY retcon in this thread is not a retcon. So there is no such thing and therefore no point in this thread.

[Carabas]

I suspect you're working from conflicting definitions of what is and isn't a retcon.

[Kuwagaton]

I think Bendis ignored the sliding time scale on this one, it's almost explicitly stated they are from the 60s.

Yeah... that's not a good idea for the sake of a coherent plot. Depicting them in the '60s works, but intending to say that a 30 year old character was 13 years younger 50 years ago, without an established or detailed explanation for why that makes sense, is kinda rough.

[XPac]

Heh. You need to read the original ALPHA FLIGHT v1 - issues 1 through about 15 or so.
If you don't get the hint that Northstar is gay, I don't know what to tell you. Even his own sister Aurora calls him out on this.

Yeah, but there are plenty of people who would argue there are hints about Ice Man's sexuality too. That's kind of my point. I think there were people out there who belive Bobby was gay for awhile. Hell, he got a flash back in Family guy over it. And it just so happens the people who believed Bobby were gay ended up being right.

[Stahlflamme]

Yeah, but there are plenty of people who would argue there are hints about Ice Man's sexuality too. That's kind of my point. I think there were people out there who belive Bobby was gay for awhile. Hell, he got a flash back in Family guy over it. And it just so happens the people who believed Bobby were gay ended up being right.

Family guy is Fox isn't it? So movie Iceman is gay? That... that is an interesting piece of information.

I'm repeating Iceman is probably the only character whose subconciousness potrayed feelings for women. And this retcon was written by Brian Michael Bendis the last person to actually put past comics into consideration, when writing. And I also repeat worst coming out scene ever. It was more busy labeling the character than anything else, except maybe making Jean even more unlikeable.

[Carabas]

But it was explicitly referenced in the comics, so there's that.



If it's now an alternate Bobby, that itself is a retcon from what Bendis established. If it's still the exact same guy, as established, then that is a little weird. That would mean the past he's from is around 2002, and being out wasn't especially more dangerous than it is in the present.

Are you very sure about that?
Because being gay in 2002 America or 2015 America, that seems like a collosal difference to me.

[XPac]

Family guy is Fox isn't it? So movie Iceman is gay? That... that is an interesting piece of information.

I'm repeating Iceman is probably the only character whose subconciousness potrayed feelings for women. And this retcon was written by Brian Michael Bendis the last person to actually put past comics into consideration, when writing. And I also repeat worst coming out scene ever. It was more busy labeling the character than anything else, except maybe making Jean even more unlikeable.

This was years before the Bendis book too. It was like Seth MacFarlane could see the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qhyfajRGJo

[PhantomStranger]

Byrne always intended him to be gay, but Jim Shooter opposed the idea of having gay characters at Marvel.

Northstar was stealth "outed" in X-Men vs Alpha FLight #1.

[Adam-X]

Northstar was stealth "outed" in X-Men vs Alpha FLight #1.

I think he was outed before that by his sister (Aurora) in the original run of Alpha Flight within the first 12 issues, where she mentions he has always preferred the company of men.

[dvgravity]

Adult Bobby still dates women, so just because his younger self now in the future is gay doesn't make the adult version gay. This is part of why I hate time travel. I was hoping that Secret Wars would end and the Original 5 displaced X-Men would be gone. I don't believe this is a retain because it didn't happen on the past during Bobby's time as a teenager. If it was a flashback then it would be a retain since adult Bobby is no different after teenage Bobby's revelation.

The worse retain I can think of, which I don't know if it will even count (hoping not) is what Remender did in volume 2 of Uncanny Avengers making Wanda and Pietro not be the children of Magneto. If it holds true post Secret Wars then in my opinion it destroys the whole relationship between them. I'm hoping Marvel forgets it and never lets Remender write anything for them again.