Avengers: Age of Ultron (spoilers)

[chico25]

That might explain him tagging along, but it wouldn't explain why he started building new suits and automatons again after making a big show and point of blowing up his research to stop for a while. Not a huge deal as I can no-prize it in my head if I need to, but just a gap in the narrative between IM3 and AoU to explain the 180 he took.

My theory is after the collapse of Shield Maria Hill went to Stark and convinced him to come back to help clean up the Hydra mess. The movie states that is the last Hydra base they need to hit, implying they had been fighting Hydra since the end of the winter soldier.

My belief is that he planned to quit again after that mission until Wanda showed him his worst fear then he didn't want to walk away without leaving Ultron behind to protect the world in his absence.

[DrNewGod]

My theory is after the collapse of Shield Maria Hill went to Stark and convinced him to come back to help clean up the Hydra mess. The movie states that is the last Hydra base they need to hit, implying they had been fighting Hydra since the end of the winter soldier.

My belief is that he planned to quit again after that mission until Wanda showed him his worst fear then he didn't want to walk away without leaving Ultron behind to protect the world in his absence.

That makes sense, especially as an internal rubric for making the story fit. But the MCU needed some kind of grounding for that sort of thing.

IMO, that's one of the reasons Marvel shouldn't have moved away from it's preview-style end-credit teasers. A scene with Iron Man and Thor getting visits from Nick Fury at the end of IM3 (instead of the Banner psychotherapy scene), and T:TDW (instead of the cute snowmonster chasing birds) would have done a LOT to set the stage for A:AoU. Other means of achieving that kind effect might have been one-shots included with the video releases. Phase 1 MCU was excellent about establishing the continuity-wide narrative. Starting with IM3 on, it's been quite lacking.

[Timberley]

That makes sense, especially as an internal rubric for making the story fit. But the MCU needed some kind of grounding for that sort of thing.

IMO, that's one of the reasons Marvel shouldn't have moved away from it's preview-style end-credit teasers. A scene with Iron Man and Thor getting visits from Nick Fury at the end of IM3 (instead of the Banner psychotherapy scene), and T:TDW (instead of the cute snowmonster chasing birds) would have done a LOT to set the stage for A:AoU. Other means of achieving that kind effect might have been one-shots included with the video releases. Phase 1 MCU was excellent about establishing the continuity-wide narrative. Starting with IM3 on, it's been quite lacking.

I'd agree with that. Phase 1 was very good at linking everything together, but now since they made the Avengers, it almost seems that they're not that fussed about it, relying more on the likes of Agents of SHIELD to add a narrative thread here and there to sew it all together. The mid-credits scene with Thanos in AoU certainly helped set up Infinity War, but that's much further down the line. From what I've seen, Ant-Man looks more standalone compared to the Iron Man, Thor and Cap films, but I'm hoping they do add something to the wider MCU continuity with it, and give us something to help set up CA:CW.

Tim

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

My favorite moments with Ultron:

1. Iron Man asking about the vibranium plans.

2. Hulk enters Ultron's plane.

[comicscollector]

Finally watched it recently.
Great movie.
I liked most the action packed level of the movie,characterisations of the heroes and Ultron as the main villain of the movie.

[Punisher007]

That might explain him tagging along, but it wouldn't explain why he started building new suits and automatons again after making a big show and point of blowing up his research to stop for a while. Not a huge deal as I can no-prize it in my head if I need to, but just a gap in the narrative between IM3 and AoU to explain the 180 he took.

Except that he DID stop for awhile. It's just that this is several years after IM3, and he NEVER said that he was retiring, or giving up building the suits, entirely. So I don't see how it's contradicting IM3. He took a break, and then came back.

[DrNewGod]

I'd agree with that. Phase 1 was very good at linking everything together, but now since they made the Avengers, it almost seems that they're not that fussed about it, relying more on the likes of Agents of SHIELD to add a narrative thread here and there to sew it all together. The mid-credits scene with Thanos in AoU certainly helped set up Infinity War, but that's much further down the line. From what I've seen, Ant-Man looks more standalone compared to the Iron Man, Thor and Cap films, but I'm hoping they do add something to the wider MCU continuity with it, and give us something to help set up CA:CW.

I can't help wondering if this is a function of more studio hands in the pot as the movies enjoy success. It may be more difficult to coordinate scripts and timing as the MCU grows.

It's good that the MCU is growing. It's sad that it appears to be losing that tight coordination.

[Sub-Zero MKA]

So the female equivalent of "women in refrigerators"? Don't know if that's progressive or dumb.

Bringing in a character only to be killed to give another character something to brood about, regardless of the gender, is dumb and lazy writing.

[Da Boat]

Just saw this. Vision to me was by far the best part. Although they should have spent more time with him his awakening, discovering who he is. Whedon seems rushed to go to the next scene.

There was great stuff with Ultron but again he became a big cartoonship villain too quickly. I didn't mind that he was Evil at birth sort of the opposite of Jarvis/Vision. But they should have taken the Frankenstein Monster's road where the being question who he is, his actions, where you see an evolution.

Hulk vs Iron Man was great but far fetched to see Iron Man win even with a big armor. He should have at least one leg and arm in a cast after the fight.

All in all, not unlike the first Avengers movie, it was tons of fun but the script was crap. Also I'm beginning to think there's just too many characters.

[Da Boat]

So the Flying Nun and a police dog could lift Mjolnir by that standard? Silly. It was a plot device. Once he bangs Wanda, will be able to lift it?

Anybody can lift the hammer if they are worthy. Vision happens to be probably be a pure perfect being, that is why he could lift it. It makes total sense.

Also Mjolnir sort of happened to create Vision so there's that connection.

[Da Boat]

They should've cast Spader as Kang and made Kang the villain in this movie. For one thing, that would've meant that we'd have Spader as a live actor instead of a CGI-T1000 with a clever mouth. Basically, he'd be Raymond Reddington wearing a space jumper instead of a Terminator rip-off. I mean, look at this picture, can't you imagine Red or Alan Shore as a sly, smug Kang?

Attachment 21719

Moreover, as a time traveller, Kang could have tied up the plots from the various other Marvel properties since he could have seen all the possibilities. For example, the Thor plot, which is clearly a foreshadowing of Thor: Ragnarok, could've been something Kang 'saw' happening in the near future. It would've been less kludgy. He could also have dropped mysterious lines like: "I see a darkness raging in the eyes of Infinity. You would do well to gird yourselves." (or some other cornball line like that).

I don't understand the fascination that Marvel's creative team has for Ultron other than Bendis having a hard-on for it. They could've gotten more mileage out of it and Kang would have fit more cleanly with an Infinity Gauntlet subplot rather than Ultron. Wasted opportunity. Then again, maybe then want Kang to be the Big Bad in the next overarching Marvel storyline -- possibly when Fox caves and gets into a Sony-like deal with Marvel? You could even make it so that Kang isn't Nathaniel Richards from the future, but Nathaniel Richards (a.k.a. Reed's dad) who was working for SHIELD in the 70's (assuming they want Mr. Fantastic to be in his 40's) and got sent by Leonardo Da Vinci's brotherhood of the SHIELD into the far future. Or something like that...

They could easily have Kang for the next movie. Hey the Time Gem needs to be used, you know.

[chico25]

I'd agree with that. Phase 1 was very good at linking everything together, but now since they made the Avengers, it almost seems that they're not that fussed about it, relying more on the likes of Agents of SHIELD to add a narrative thread here and there to sew it all together. The mid-credits scene with Thanos in AoU certainly helped set up Infinity War, but that's much further down the line. From what I've seen, Ant-Man looks more standalone compared to the Iron Man, Thor and Cap films, but I'm hoping they do add something to the wider MCU continuity with it, and give us something to help set up CA:CW.

Tim

I disagree with the idea that the continuity wasn't there, it was just more subtle giving the audience enough credit to be able to see the connections. The Banner therapy scene was played for comedy but was an indicator of how close Tony and Bruce were and why Bruce might trust Tony enough to go along with him on Ultron. The collector scene in Thor makes the only direct connection any of the avengers has to the Guardians of the Galaxy. There was a scene in Captain America that showed Maria Hill going to Stark after the fall, it doesn't explicitly show her asking Stark to become Ironman again but it plants the idea for us to fill in the blanks. Even Age of Ultron plants the idea that Steve and Tony have different views on protecting and saving the world, and those views were expressed and explored in their individual films. Ironman 3 was all about Tony building this army of armor to be prepared for any threat in a proactive way which would lead to Ultron as a logical final step. Where as Cap 2 was about how that type of fear based defense could go wrong easily and can leave openings for misuse. So the setup for Civil War has been done if they put this spin on it. With Cap comparing the twins to himself even when they were the bad guys I can see him taking an anti registration stance if civil war goes that direction and Tony taking a protective stand of supporting registration to prevent danger.

[DrNewGod]

Just saw this. Vision to me was by far the best part. Although they should have spent more time with him his awakening, discovering who he is. Whedon seems rushed to go to the next scene.

There was great stuff with Ultron but again he became a big cartoonship villain too quickly. I didn't mind that he was Evil at birth sort of the opposite of Jarvis/Vision. But they should have taken the Frankenstein Monster's road where the being question who he is, his actions, where you see an evolution.

This is the problem with the big screen adaptations as a whole, but particularly with Marvel. One of the real strengths of their characters is that they evolved and built up over time. 616-Ultron's initial motives were strictly Oedipal against his creator, and that developed into a genocidal/evolutionary contest between AI and organic species. Here, they had to go from creation to Global killer threat in a very short time, so there was no opportunity for that menace to build from one appearance to the next.

It's one of the reasons that I think Phase 1 was superior to what we've seen from the MCU before. They were doing a better job of tying all this stuff together so that you didn't need much screen time for each character in the Avengers to understand what was going on, and have the plot pull together. Granted, The Avengers probably didn't work as well as a stand-alone for viewers that hadn't seen both Thor and CA:TFA, but it allowed the film to hit the ground running with fewer cognitive pot-holes for the audience to have to mentally fill.

I'm hoping that the Netflix properties will manage this better, for both the heroes and their adversaries.

Also I'm beginning to think there's just too many characters.

I also agree with you on the subject of too many characters. Studio execs can't seem to help themselves when presented with choices between making a strong sequel, and getting another character out on the toy and t-shirt racks (to say nothing of the playable video game characters).

[Da Boat]

This is the problem with the big screen adaptations as a whole, but particularly with Marvel. One of the real strengths of their characters is that they evolved and built up over time. 616-Ultron's initial motives were strictly Oedipal against his creator, and that developed into a genocidal/evolutionary contest between AI and organic species. Here, they had to go from creation to Global killer threat in a very short time, so there was no opportunity for that menace to build from one appearance to the next.

It's one of the reasons that I think Phase 1 was superior to what we've seen from the MCU before. They were doing a better job of tying all this stuff together so that you didn't need much screen time for each character in the Avengers to understand what was going on, and have the plot pull together. Granted, The Avengers probably didn't work as well as a stand-alone for viewers that hadn't seen both Thor and CA:TFA, but it allowed the film to hit the ground running with fewer cognitive pot-holes for the audience to have to mentally fill.

I'm hoping that the Netflix properties will manage this better, for both the heroes and their adversaries.

Well Phase 1 it was the first of these movies, so they all had to have their origins. So it wasn't a problem when most of them showed up in Avengers. The set up was done. But Vision, Witch and Pietro came into being as super-heroes inside the Avengers, they don't have their own movies. Especially this time, it was a freakin birth, you know. The birth of the first new Being in human existance. If anything, it should have been the sort of thing used at the end of a chapter, where the whole World sees this Birth and everybody goes batshit nut.

Also the origin of SW and QS remains foggy. They are not mutants, though.

I also agree with you on the subject of too many characters. Studio execs can't seem to help themselves when presented with choices between making a strong sequel, and getting another character out on the toy and t-shirt racks (to say nothing of the playable video game characters).

The thing is, It would be sad not seeing the mainstay guys like Cap, Tony, Thor, Hulk and so forth but at one point their large number prevent them to properly have face time, to have proper interaction with one another.

But at the end of the movie when Cap adressed the Avengers there seemed to have a new team there with War Machine and Falcon,Vision, CW, Widow. Maybe it's gonna be the new team from now on. It would be easier to write adventures with a smaller team but they are not the most lively characters to replace the Big boys.

[chico25]

That makes sense, especially as an internal rubric for making the story fit. But the MCU needed some kind of grounding for that sort of thing.

IMO, that's one of the reasons Marvel shouldn't have moved away from it's preview-style end-credit teasers. A scene with Iron Man and Thor getting visits from Nick Fury at the end of IM3 (instead of the Banner psychotherapy scene), and T:TDW (instead of the cute snowmonster chasing birds) would have done a LOT to set the stage for A:AoU. Other means of achieving that kind effect might have been one-shots included with the video releases. Phase 1 MCU was excellent about establishing the continuity-wide narrative. Starting with IM3 on, it's been quite lacking.

It would have made no sense for Fury to visit them at that point because Shield was still in tact and Tony was working with them on the insight helicarriers to give them repulsar based engines. Anything Fury had to say would have been meaningless to continuity or a major spoiler for Cap 2.