Bendis, Alonso Share Intentions Behind "All-New X-Men" Outing

[RandyMcDonald]

I just don't think that there has been any evidence, aside from fan-wishes/reaching or whatever you want to call it. It's the same as the Batman-Robin relationships theories since the 60s. Bobby has had relationships with women and pursued women. You have people that say that "oh, he keeps holding himself back, so he must be hiding something and gay." Or "he's had a string of failed relationships so he must be gay"; "he's immature because he likes to play around - he must be gay." Noen of these equate to sexual orientation

I quite agree. I've said elsewhere in this discussion that there were other explanations for Bobby's behaviour other than being closeted. Other writers could have done different things.

That said, I think that the explanation of him as being gay and closeted does work. I don't see any serious contradictions with his past behaviour, the main thing giving me pause being Xavier's apparent decision not to support him coming out. That, though, is more concern about what this might mean about Xavier than anything else. This is an explanation that makes sense.

Iceman being gay works in a way it wouldn't for Batman. His lovers are either on the borderline of the law, have crossed the borderline into madness, have been unable to cope with his obsessions, or have occasionally been murdered. With Bobby, his relationships just have been shown to fizzle.

This was not an inevitable outcome, but I think it's an acceptable and defensible one.

[RandyMcDonald]

I think the main reason for this was the reactions he got on tumbler to that Disney Princess line from the first GOTG crossover. He had probably never heard of the gay Iceman thing before that.

Talk of that has been ongoing for some time. I first encountered it long before I got into comics, in 2004 when a friend and fanfic writer told me how he thought Iceman could be portrayed as in the closet. (He picks a girlfriend, Rogue, who he can't touch or do anything with?) Others, with longer histories as fans, have testified that the idea of Bobby being gay long predates Bendis' run.

[Badou]

Isn't this Iceman from like the year 2000 because of the sliding timeline? So it isn't like he comes from a time that far removed from our own. Though you know, if he doesn't want to be gay he can just go to Rachel or another telepath and ask them adjust the way his brain processes information. If Xavier was still alive he probably would do it no problem, but doing anything like that would defeat the gimmick of outing him in the first place I suppose.

[Venom Melendez]

Man, Bendis did a pretty poor job with this. I would have preferred if Iceman came to this conclusion himself, instead of having Jean read his mind without consent and force him to come out like that.

[Arion]

Actually from what I have read this has been guessed and surmised for ages. For a lot of fans of Iceman, this didn't feel forced or out of the blue at all.

Indeed. I always felt Iceman was gay, just like Cypher from the New Mutants.

[Knives]

Man, Bendis did a pretty poor job with this. I would have preferred if Iceman came to this conclusion himself, instead of having Jean read his mind without consent and force him to come out like that.

You're not the only one thinking that way.

There were many ways for her to approach the subject without implying that she read his mind even with good intentions is wrong in so many ways. But not blame Jean this is the fault of the writers after what happened with Angel she should have learned the lesson.

[toddcam]

Indeed. I always felt Iceman was gay, just like Cypher from the New Mutants.

What is there to indicate Doug? I have never seen this, and I was one of those reading in the mid-90s who thought Bobby was gay.

[gantz_alien_killer]

The guesses that I’ve seen. There are more like fan projections and wish fulfillment than anything else. Bobby has had failed relationships with women? Yeah, well so have Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark are they going to be outed as gay soon too?

Exactly. I always read Bobby's failure to maintain relations (written by people) because he was so immature. He jokes about life or death situations can he really maintain a normal adult conversation. doubt it or not long enough.

[kevinism]

This was not an inevitable outcome, but I think it's an acceptable and defensible one.

This 100% This

[Dextersinister]

Over a year ago I would have found this amusing ,the idea of Iceman being secretly gay as it seemed to be a long running joke on the x-boards, now it seems these changes are changed to drum up publicity for Marvel.

[DocSpin]

Isn't this Iceman from like the year 2000 because of the sliding timeline? So it isn't like he comes from a time that far removed from our own. Though you know, if he doesn't want to be gay he can just go to Rachel or another telepath and ask them adjust the way his brain processes information. If Xavier was still alive he probably would do it no problem, but doing anything like that would defeat the gimmick of outing him in the first place I suppose.

Heck yeah. Going to Rachel or Xavier for x-gay therapy (pun intended) would certainly take care of this inconvenient gimmick.

[DocSpin]

Over a year ago I would have found this amusing ,the idea of Iceman being secretly gay as it seemed to be a long running joke on the x-boards, now it seems these changes are changed to drum up publicity for Marvel.

Yeah, but they totally dropped the ball. Unlike the time time they went to The View to promote Lady Thor. I'm sure heads will roll in their inept PR Department. What a bunch of slackers!

[DocSpin]

I think spending a great deal of issue #600 shoehorning this lazy plot point into the mythos is the perfect way to celebrate the anniversary of this great franchise. 20 years from now we'll all remember where we were when issue 600 did that thing where Bobby was gay. Because of reasons.

In all seriousness, the fact that so many characters are being taken from one way to another shows me how this is all about sensationalism and not at all about being inclusive. Marvel comics is making itself a bad joke. Introduce all the new characters you want, give them their own starring role in books, just stop trying to drive a wedge between fans just to stir up controversy for the sake of sales. Sell your books on good writing, not controversy. Or, go write for a tabloid if that's what you want the goal of your work to be.

Not really understanding how this is in the least bit "controversy". Just enjoying reading a really interesting story here. But apparently I lack the depth to see it on another level.

[RandyMcDonald]

Isn't this Iceman from like the year 2000 because of the sliding timeline? So it isn't like he comes from a time that far removed from our own.

In the 1960s, a gay teenager in New York like Bobby would have faced not only terrible stigma but criminal prosecution if he tried to consummate the relationship. Being in the closet would be probably the only way for a nice young gay man from suburbia to avoid being destroyed.

Things would be better in the 1990s, but there would still be a lot of that old stigma in the environment and continuing discrimination, not to mention a relatively unchecked HIV/AIDS epidemic. If your earliest associations of homosexuality were with marginalization, isolation, and terrible death, you might not want to engage with the concept.

Looking to his specific environment, Bobby's father is also established as a bigot generally, someone uncomfortable with his mutant son. How would he have responded to a gay son? I think we'd be justified in fearing for him.

The first time that Bobby manifested any kind of difference at all, by using his powers over cold to save a girl he was seeing from attackers, his neighbours tried to lynch him. Would this transfer over to the subconscious fear I already mentioned, that he could suffer a terrible fate if he came out for any reason? Almost certainly.

Bobby has very good reason to be afraid of what the world might do to him for either difference. I can only imagine how relieved he felt to be told by Jean Grey that he would be safe, that he would not have to fear the people he cared about. (Plus, having Jean Grey willing to help you and protect you is a huge plus. Would you mess with her?)

[themasething]

Time travel gave us a platform to discover the journeys of the young characters.

Sounds like Bendis is using this as an excuse to create Tumblr's fanfiction into the mainline comics.