Bendis On Iceman's Outing, Says "I'm Not Done With This Story Yet"

[Viteh]

This is not a "how to" story -- it is a story about what happened to these characters. Demonize them if you will, but Bendis is is no way saying that this is what should happen.

Demonize them? A bit of an exaggeration.

It's okay if a writer wants to present something problematic, as this is, but it has to be acknowledged as such in the pages, or at the very least implied. This is a book that teens read. An a particularly important and delicate issue, it must be dealt properly.

[Bunai]

I did not read it as her deciding his sexuality. She told him what she saw in his mind, and he agreed. At best, she was guilty of being a nosy bitch, which he called her out on.

As I commented before you replied: The current context of it is just awkward. [/no harm done]

The dialog reads like it is from the 90s, when writers had no idea what being gay meant. Seriously... "Full Gay".
So unless Young!Jean can see the future, to me, it does come off as if she is deciding Bobby's sexuality based on what she reads in passing thought rather than letting him figure this out on his own.

[Harlock999]

So, are there just a lot of people in fandom who have no familiarity with the concept "deeply closeted"?

Oh, I think most people are well aware of this concept...

That's why Tony Stark's womanizing and alcoholism will soon be revealed as a "beard" for his own homosexuality. Or desire to become his "true" self as a woman.

That's why Gambit always wore magenta.

That's why Batman likes long flowy capes and black leather.

That's why Cyclops is mopey.

That's why T'Challa has the Dora Milaje.

That's why Black Bolt really doesn't speak.


You see the problem here?

[Harlock999]

This is a book that teens read.

Do teens really read comics these days?

In all seriousness, I thought the demographics showed the current comicbook reader to be in his late 30s...

[Spacedog2]

It's not about whether Bobby is bi or not (he's not), it's about someone else questioning your sexuality. It's not their place. Mind reader or not, it's not their place.

And Bobby being okay with it only means the writer was okay with it.

OK, so the complaint is about someone else QUESTIONING sexuality. That is differently framed from hot label accusations like "Bi-erasure" or "dictation of sexuality."

Someone else questioning your sexuality is a relatively common experience, and it is portrayed fairly frequently in pop culture. He already called her a nosy bitch. It's acknowledged that she transgressed the line a little. If the writer did not convince you that the "capital C Character" of Bobby would be OK with it, then the story did not convince you. But that doesn't mean Bendis himself advocates nosy bitch friends across the nation to all of a sudden question their closeted friends. And in any event, none of them are telepaths who have a history of failing to control her powers or shut out other peoples' thoughts, as portrayed in this exact comic's run.

[alton]

Oh, I think most people are well aware of this concept...

That's why Tony Stark's womanizing and alcoholism will soon be revealed as a "beard" for his own homosexuality. Or desire to become his "true" self as a woman.

That's why Gambit always wore magenta.

That's why Batman likes long flowy capes and black leather.

That's why Cyclops is mopey.

That's why T'Challa has the Dora Milaje.

That's why Black Bolt really doesn't speak.


You see the problem here?

Well said...

[Bunai]

Oh, I think most people are well aware of this concept...

Tony Stark
Gambit
Batman
Cyclops
T'Challa
Black Bolt

Is it bad that I MxM ship these characters from time to time? *cough* <_< I do the same with FxF, but I don't create excuse-scenarios that result in the character being proven a "full yada-yada" just because of past/future relationship problems. That is my personal view and understandable that isn't anyone else's.

Wolverine would be the leading flagship in this respect.


This is just the context I am getting from these few scanned pages, if it turns out be a rather planned lesson and well thought story I will be supportive and interested.

[DocSpin]

Demonize them? A bit of an exaggeration.

It's okay if a writer wants to present something problematic, as this is, but it has to be acknowledged as such in the pages, or at the very least implied. This is a book that teens read. An a particularly important and delicate issue, it must be dealt properly.

First I disagree that this is a "problematic" story. And "properly" according to whom -- Fredric Wertham?

[bloodofthegods]

Do teens really read comics these days?

In all seriousness, I thought the demographics showed the current comicbook reader to be in his late 30s...

Teens or 30's, writer's are just projecting their own thoughts, ideas, and agenda through fictional characters, in fictional settings and worlds. Certainly not the place to learn how to socially interact with human beings in a respectful and dignified manner. It's fiction. If one needs guidance on social issues, at the very least there's a huge non-fiction section at book stores and libraries.

[Spacedog2]

As I commented before you replied: The current context of it is just awkward. [/no harm done]

The dialog reads like it is from the 90s, when writers had no idea what being gay meant. Seriously... "Full Gay".
So unless Young!Jean can see the future, to me, it does come off as if she is deciding Bobby's sexuality based on what she reads in passing thought rather than letting him figure this out on his own.

I'd agree it was an awkward exchange which to me ended up as a positive experience for them, but it could just as easily have ended up negatively. But it just didn't come off to me as her deciding things for him, as he affirmed it at every turn. Agree to disagree though.

[MJ Tanner]

So does anyone have links to the tumblrs Bendis references?

[BuyTryWhy]

A huge pet peeve of mine is when artists re-use panels, as in the second page here, with the key moment. This is going to be a very famous page for Marvel and Mahmud Asrar, and yet he couldn't e bothered to draw the eight panels. He drew four, and re-used those to fill in the other four.

Jean's even supposed to be MOVING her arms, yet it looks like she's standing still with the same motion lines. Move an arm, move, her head, hell, move an iris.

What a missed opportunity, and shame on the editors for allowing him to do this. Am I alone in thinking this way?

[Viteh]

OK, so the complaint is about someone else QUESTIONING sexuality. That is differently framed from hot label accusations like "Bi-erasure" or "dictation of sexuality."

Someone else questioning your sexuality is a relatively common experience, and it is portrayed fairly frequently in pop culture. He already called her a nosy bitch. It's acknowledged that she transgressed the line a little. If the writer did not convince you that the "capital C Character" of Bobby would be OK with it, then the story did not convince you. But that doesn't mean Bendis himself advocates nosy bitch friends across the nation to all of a sudden question their closeted friends. And in any event, none of them are telepaths who have a history of failing to control her powers or shut out other peoples' thoughts, as portrayed in this exact comic's run.

That's the erasure part. Questioning you are BI is the whole point. It's something most bi people go through, even by other LGBT.

Unless Bendis had actually acknowledges how problematic it is, then he's essentially saying this is okay.

What a missed opportunity, and shame on the editors for allowing him to do this. Am I alone in thinking this way?

Yeah, that was odd. Same two panels used 3 times each. A little dissapointing.

[seanx40]

Cannonball's wife and son might think otherwise.

[Viteh]

Do teens really read comics these days?

In all seriousness, I thought the demographics showed the current comicbook reader to be in his late 30s...

I don't know if they buy it, but I've seen plenty of teens reading it on tumblr, and I don't mean just this issue.