More OC's and Less Hand Me Downs

[Shinglepants]

As much as I do like Thor, Spidey and the rest. I do wish we'd see more of the likes of Songbird, American Eagle or some of the kids from Academy or Arena.

Look at All-New All-Different Avengers for example. Sure, mostly new characters but they're still Spider-Man, Thor, Iron Man and Ms. Marvel. Just how All-New is that?

[Ceebiro]

As much as I do like Thor, Spidey and the rest. I do wish we'd see more of the likes of Songbird, American Eagle or some of the kids from Academy or Arena.

Look at All-New All-Different Avengers for example. Sure, mostly new characters but they're still Spider-Man, Thor, Iron Man and Ms. Marvel. Just how All-New is that?

Still pretty all new. So what if they have powersets that ape other characters. Their backgrounds and actual characters are far different than what came before and it's those details that will shape their interactions with one another and the villains they face.

I mean there's no way they're not going to come across a lot of wholly unique powers in the MU at this point.

[Silvermoth]

The thing about people complaining about marvel not creating enough new characters is when they do they don't buy them.

It's like people who complain there are too many superhero movies and yet superhero movies are the only ones they pay to see

[Expletive Deleted]

It's a catch-22. With the legacy angle and the looming shadow of the original status quo, they're at a disadvantage in the long-term. Without the legacy angle and the attention it brings, they're at a disadvantage in the short-term (and unlikely to survive long enough for the other thing to be an issue).

[KOSLOX]

To be clear I'm not judging any of these because some of them are favorites. Keep it going if you think of more, maybe bold the ones you add.

Direct name transfers:
Captain America x5?
Ms. Marvel
Ghost Rider x3? (part of the character is replacement though)
Spider-Man (x2 if we count Superior Spidey)
Nova
Captain Marvel
Wolverine x2
Thor x2
Nick Fury
Ant Man x2
Venom x4 (the passing of the torch is kind of part of the character)
Carnage x2 (ditto)
Deathlok xInfinity
Dark Phoenix (not sure if that counts)

Legacy or Spin-Offs
Spider-Woman
Spider-Girl
Spider-Gwen
Silk
X-23
Dakken
Iron Patriot
Future Foundation
Red Hulk
She-Hulk
Skaar
All of the "Pool" family (sharing a slot because most never last more than one issue)

There have been 3 Ms. Marvels (Carol, Sharon Ventura, Kamala; 4 if we count Moonstone)
6 Captain Marvels (Mar Vell, Monica, Genis, Phyla, Noh Var, Caro; 7 if we count Khn'nr)
5 Ghost Riders (Carter Slade, Johnny Blaze, Dan Ketch, Alejandra, Robbie Reyes)
3 Antmen (Pym, Lang, O' Grady)

3 Spider-Women
2 Iron Patriots

[Rajikaru]

Here is a truth that many may not want to hear.

A lot of Marvel's heavy hitters also do their own Indy projects. Does anyone honesty expect them to create and give Marvel/DC a brand new character that's not a branch off of an established Marvel IP, especially when they can go to Image and create their original property and universe? It's what Liefield, McFarlane and the other Image guys did when they realized this.

They are going to reinvent Marvel properties over and over. Such we get a new Thor, a new Ghost Rider, new Spider-Man and so on, but it's still a Marvel IP.

[shgs]

Still pretty all new. So what if they have powersets that ape other characters. Their backgrounds and actual characters are far different than what came before and it's those details that will shape their interactions with one another and the villains they face.

I mean there's no way they're not going to come across a lot of wholly unique powers in the MU at this point.

Exactly. The chances of a writer coming up with a simple, iconic superhero concept at this point are incredibly thin. Might as well make new characters a fresh take on a proven concept, which gives them a foot in the door and a ready connection to the wider shared universe.

Here is a truth that many may not want to hear.

A lot of Marvel's heavy hitters also do their own Indy projects. Does anyone honesty expect them to create and give Marvel/DC a brand new character that's not a branch off of an established Marvel IP, especially when they can go to Image and create their original property and universe? It's what Liefield, McFarlane and the other Image guys did when they realized this.

Is this really that big an issue these days? How many of those writers are writing superhero comics as their Indie work? When Image was first created it was a direct competitor to Marvel and DC, nowadays it puts out projects that would never be done by Marvel in the first place.

[Conway]

Keep it going if you think of more, maybe bold the ones you add.

Direct name transfers:
Captain America x5?
Bucky Barnes
Nomad
Ms. Marvel x2
Ghost Rider x5 (part of the character is replacement though)
Spider-Man (x2 if we count Superior Spidey)
Nova
Captain Marvel x6
Wolverine x2
Thor x2
Nick Fury
Ant Man x2
Venom x4 (the passing of the torch is kind of part of the character)
Carnage x2 (ditto)
Deathlok xInfinity
Dark Phoenix (not sure if that counts)
Human Torch

Legacy or Spin-Offs
Bucky Barnes
Nomad
Spider-Woman x3
Spider-Girl
Spider-Gwen
Silk
X-23
Dakken
Iron Patriot x2
Future Foundation
Red Hulk
She-Hulk
Skaar
All of the "Pool" family (sharing a slot because most never last more than one issue)

[Conway]

Spider-woman isn't a spin off or legacy.

And if you use the criteria of spin off we'll be here all day cause most heroes are spin offs from other books.

If the other company considers Robin and Power Girl legacy characters, the Bucky Barnes and Spider-Woman are legacy characters.

Great list. Is it ok if I add it to the front page?

Sure, just trying to clarify what we're talking about before we vote. Some of these characters are great.

[teamhawkeyes]

Honestly, I rarely buy a book based on a character's power set. Their powers are the least interesting about a superhero for me, so when characters share powers or have legacy names or whatever, I don't really care at all whatsoever. I'm far more interested in the actual character behind all that. Who they are, what their story is, how they handle the pressure of their heroing, what their lives entail, their relationships, attitudes, wants, desires, goals, etc. So yeah, in that regard, legacy characters or hand me down characters or whatever don't even come close to bothering me.

[Of Atlantis]

I feel like a lot of the "new" characters Marvel tries pushing are derivative, and their general appeal moreso lies within their predecessor than anything else. Unfortunately, their induction comes often at the expense of the character they (often temporarily) replace and their fans.

I'd be more for building those characters up alongside their predecessor, but Marvel feels fast forwarding their popularity through a loud, sudden gimmick is more beneficial and I suppose that's where we agree to disagree.

I'm not against legacy characters at all, but some dignity to their inception based on who they're replacing is preferred.

[Adjudicator]

To be honest, I don't mind legacy characters if done well. Take Wally west when he became the flash. Barry dies in a extremely heroic manner and Wally takes up the mantle of flash to honor him. Perfect. Classic it worked.

Now look at some of marvels passing of the name. Cap becomes and old man and losses the super soldier serum. ( let not bother with the continuum issues that has) but just look at how anticlimactic it was. Cap did not get some major heroic end it was well blah and then they made falcon cap which to me was a slap in the face to falcon who is a great character.
To make it worse my little sister who is marvels female target audience for some of there new stuff said this. If Steve Rogers is not cap then it is just a guy in a red white and blue suit with a frisbee. It is not the name that make these characters it is the person behind the mask.

[t hedge coke]

To be honest, I don't mind legacy characters if done well. Take Wally west when he became the flash. Barry dies in a extremely heroic manner and Wally takes up the mantle of flash to honor him. Perfect. Classic it worked.

Now look at some of marvels passing of the name. Cap becomes and old man and losses the super soldier serum. ( let not bother with the continuum issues that has) but just look at how anticlimactic it was. Cap did not get some major heroic end it was well blah and then they made falcon cap which to me was a slap in the face to falcon who is a great character.
To make it worse my little sister who is marvels female target audience for some of there new stuff said this. If Steve Rogers is not cap then it is just a guy in a red white and blue suit with a frisbee. It is not the name that make these characters it is the person behind the mask.

Grandpa Steve is so cute, though. And charming. And heroic. And, you know he won't be old forever.

[ZephyrSurf]

If the other company considers Robin and Power Girl legacy characters, the Bucky Barnes and Spider-Woman are legacy characters.

Spider-wman doesn't originate or have anything to do with Spiderman. There are very real ties between robin and batman and Powergirl and Superman. Spiderwoman is a spiderpowered hero. She's not a part of his world nor do her origins relate to spiderman.

[Adjudicator]

Grandpa Steve is so cute, though. And charming. And heroic. And, you know he won't be old forever.

That is what scares me about SW. I get the feeling this is going to be marvels push to get rid of the originals like Thor and Steve and say see lady Thor is the only Thor and falcon is the only cap we have. The current bowing to the social media tumbler crowd scares me . Sigh I guess I might just be to old.