Kingpin vs. Bane

[Tien Long]

Kingpin


vs.

Bane


This was a match I've been contemplating for a while. These are two cold, cruel, calculating, intimidating men with blood drenched iron fists who have physically and mentally broken their respective archenemies. So what happens when you point these two at each other?

1st Scenario: Standard arena fight. Bane has no Venom.

2nd Scenario: Standard arena fight. Bane has his Venom.

3rd Scenario: Both are at war with one another to takeover the criminal underworld of a city. How does each go about making business, leading thugs, and outmanuvering the other?

Discuss.

[master of read]

current or classic fisk?

[Sharpandpointies]

Yeah, it's kind of critical which one it is.

Current Fisk might come close or at least make a serious fight out of the first one. Could be almost a split. Second one, Bane should take it after a rough go.

Meanwhile, Classic Fisk pulls no-Venom Bane apart, laughing. Bane comes back in hopped up on Venom (possibly with Croc yelling 'Go get him, man!' from the stands) and Fisk...pulls him apart with slightly greater effort (possibly with Croc weeping in the stands).

Criminal underworld? Bane gets some serious paramilitary types to assist him, works out pretty darned good strategies, and leads through a combination of fear and respect.

Fisk wanders in doing pretty much the same, though from a more 'economical' and less 'military' standpoint. He rules through a combination of fear (again), respect (again), and a crapton of money.

My bet is on Fisk; Bane's people get a horrible surprise when they find out that the Kingpin makes a habit out of hiring full-out metahumans to deal with his opposition.

[master of read]

Yeah, it's kind of critical which one it is.

Current Fisk might come close or at least make a serious fight out of the first one. Could be almost a split. Second one, Bane should take it after a rough go.

Meanwhile, Classic Fisk pulls no-Venom Bane apart, laughing. Bane comes back in hopped up on Venom (possibly with Croc yelling 'Go get him, man!' from the stands) and Fisk...pulls him apart with slightly greater effort (possibly with Croc weeping in the stands).

Criminal underworld? Bane gets some serious paramilitary types to assist him, works out pretty darned good strategies, and leads through a combination of fear and respect.

Fisk wanders in doing pretty much the same, though from a more 'economical' and less 'military' standpoint. He rules through a combination of fear (again), respect (again), and a crapton of money.

My bet is on Fisk; Bane's people get a horrible surprise when they find out that the Kingpin makes a habit out of hiring full-out metahumans to deal with his opposition.

i remember a spidey comic where the mayor was cracking down on guns and putting the hurt on major mob figures. fisk was calmly reading his newspaper while talking to ox about how this fucks up his rivals because they need guns and he prefers using meta-humans.

he then proceeds to order hits on other crime figures like osborn and hammerhead using nitro the living bomb.

[Sharpandpointies]

*laughs* That sounds about right.

Kingpin has defended his criminal organization against all comers (Maggia, Hydra even) for years and years and years. Every now and then someone (hero or villain) gets the better of him and he loses his throne. Then he come right back and resumes it.

I'd pick him over Bane here in the strategy fight.

[master of read]

*laughs* That sounds about right.

Kingpin has defended his criminal organization against all comers (Maggia, Hydra even) for years and years and years. Every now and then someone (hero or villain) gets the better of him and he loses his throne. Then he come right back and resumes it.

I'd pick him over Bane here in the strategy fight.

it's funny because that particular story took place during on of those times when he lost his throne.

[Sharpandpointies]

It's certainly a thing for Fisk to 'lose throne, make comeback involving doing horrible things to the people who took it.'

Bane had a throne. Once. And that was that.

[MidTierHero]

Current Bane stomps the hell out of Fisk.

[Tien Long]

current or classic fisk?

Current Fisk it is.

Yeah, it's kind of critical which one it is.

Current Fisk might come close or at least make a serious fight out of the first one. Could be almost a split. Second one, Bane should take it after a rough go.

Meanwhile, Classic Fisk pulls no-Venom Bane apart, laughing. Bane comes back in hopped up on Venom (possibly with Croc yelling 'Go get him, man!' from the stands) and Fisk...pulls him apart with slightly greater effort (possibly with Croc weeping in the stands).

Criminal underworld? Bane gets some serious paramilitary types to assist him, works out pretty darned good strategies, and leads through a combination of fear and respect.

Fisk wanders in doing pretty much the same, though from a more 'economical' and less 'military' standpoint. He rules through a combination of fear (again), respect (again), and a crapton of money.

My bet is on Fisk; Bane's people get a horrible surprise when they find out that the Kingpin makes a habit out of hiring full-out metahumans to deal with his opposition.

Would Fisk beat Bane in terms of winning over the underworld? Ultimately, I agree with you. Fisk has been playing a master general much longer than Bane has. Indeed, it would be say that Bane has been more "henchmen" then "strategist."

Still, I think it would be a VERY hard fought victory for Fisk. Yeah, both Kingpin and Bane rule their men through fear, intimidation, and respect, but I think with Bane's men there's an aspect of fanaticism. During the Arkham War storyline, Bane threw wave after wave of men against the inmates of Arkham. A ton of them died of course, but I got the sense that they willing died for the cause. Would Hobgoblin, The Enforcers, or Bullseye show that type of devotion to Fisk? Additionally, Bane has gained a lot of respect from his men mainly because he leads from the front. The guy is always in the thick of it, rather than Fisk who often leads behind his desk.

As for Fisk's metahuman forces.........................y'know in hist most recent appearances, Bane did give portions of his Venom serum to certain underlings, like the Brute. He also had the support of the Talon William Cobb during the Arkham War. Maybe just enough to counter anything Fisk throws?

Don't know. Maybe Bane has a chance in the strategy game against Fisk.

[Sharpandpointies]

Current Fisk it is.

Okay, cool. So which Bane? NuBane, Post-Crisis (who is a huge metahuman-type)?

Would Fisk beat Bane in terms of winning over the underworld? Ultimately, I agree with you. Fisk has been playing a master general much longer than Bane has. Indeed, it would be say that Bane has been more "henchmen" then "strategist."

More money. Lots more money.

Still, I think it would be a VERY hard fought victory for Fisk. Yeah, both Kingpin and Bane rule their men through fear, intimidation, and respect, but I think with Bane's men there's an aspect of fanaticism. During the Arkham War storyline, Bane threw wave after wave of men against the inmates of Arkham. A ton of them died of course, but I got the sense that they willing died for the cause. Would Hobgoblin, The Enforcers, or Bullseye show that type of devotion to Fisk? Additionally, Bane has gained a lot of respect from his men mainly because he leads from the front. The guy is always in the thick of it, rather than Fisk who often leads behind his desk.

Bane would probably command more respect and loyalty based on that from his people.

Fisk, however, has tons of money. People don't care that he's sitting behind a desk, because they're as frightened of him as they are of Bane and because he's giving them that money.

As for fanaticism from Typhoid Mary or Hobgoblin or others Fisk has employed...he doesn't need it. Those kinds will rip through groups of normals (ie, Bane's people) like they're nothing. And if Bane is heading up his army...I don't know how NuBane would do against the serious metahumans Fisk employs, but Post-Crisis Bane is in serious trouble if PIS is off. Elektra or Bullseye murder him.

As for Fisk's metahuman forces.........................y'know in hist most recent appearances, Bane did give portions of his Venom serum to certain underlings, like the Brute. He also had the support of the Talon William Cobb during the Arkham War. Maybe just enough to counter anything Fisk throws?

Got me. Depends if Venom allows people to clock in at the same level as Bullseye, Hobgoblin, Elektra, others, then maybe.

[master of read]

doesn't fisk have the hand on speed dial or something?

[Sharpandpointies]

He certainly did for a while. I imagine Shadowland kind of screwed that up.

...I'm woefully out of date when it comes to comics, I'm afraid.

[Tien Long]

Okay, cool. So which Bane? NuBane, Post-Crisis (who is a huge metahuman-type)?

Hmmm, how about this:

Scenario 1: Standard arena. Current Fisk vs. Post-Crisis Bane (I'm thinking the Bane that showed up during "No Man's Land" and in The Secret Six series. No Venom.)

Scenario 2: Standard arena. Current Fisk vs. New 52 Bane (I'm thinking the Bane that fought against the Talons and led an army during the Arkham War. He's on Venom.)

Scenario 3: Current Fisk vs. New 52 Bane for control of a criminal empire. This would be each other trying to out plot and out maneuver one another. And to make it interesting, each gets to call upon a portion of their typical henchmen. So, Fisk gets Bullseye, Lady Bullseye, Typhoid Mary, the Shadowland Hand, and his regular thugs against Bane, his Santa Prisca army, his lieutenants of failed Venom subjects (the Brute, Malicia, Wolf-Spider), and William Cobb Talon.

More money. Lots more money.

Bane would probably command more respect and loyalty based on that from his people.

Fisk, however, has tons of money. People don't care that he's sitting behind a desk, because they're as frightened of him as they are of Bane and because he's giving them that money.

As for fanaticism from Typhoid Mary or Hobgoblin or others Fisk has employed...he doesn't need it. Those kinds will rip through groups of normals (ie, Bane's people) like they're nothing. And if Bane is heading up his army...I don't know how NuBane would do against the serious metahumans Fisk employs, but Post-Crisis Bane is in serious trouble if PIS is off. Elektra or Bullseye murder him.

Hmmm, does money and respect outweigh fanaticism and respect? Who's to say? I will say that I'm pretty impressed with the way that Fisk's henchmen stand by him. Fisk has got to be pretty loaded in order for Bullseye to keep coming back for a beatdown from Daredevil.

Got me. Depends if Venom allows people to clock in at the same level as Bullseye, Hobgoblin, Elektra, others, then maybe.

I hear ya. Just to be fair, having Venom doesn't exactly mean you become a Bane. That Brute guy I was talking to you about? Well, he certainly is strong:



But then he got impaled by the Man-Bat a couple of panels later:


So....yeah..........maybe Fisk could win the war for a criminal empire.

...I'm woefully out of date when it comes to comics, I'm afraid.

Ha, we all are, bro. Been a while since I've seen some Kingpin feats. Last I remember him going hand to hand was back when Daredevil kicked the crap out of him won control of Hell's Kitchen . Any other physical feats he have after that?

[FrenchGemini]

He certainly did for a while. I imagine Shadowland kind of screwed that up.

Actually, it ended up even better for him. By the end of the story arc, he was the Hand's new boss. However, I think he lost the position during Superior Spider-Man.

[Sharpandpointies]

Hmmm, how about this:

Scenario 1: Standard arena. Current Fisk vs. Post-Crisis Bane (I'm thinking the Bane that showed up during "No Man's Land" and in The Secret Six series. No Venom.)

Probably a rough fight for both of them, with Bane edging a win.

Scenario 2: Standard arena. Current Fisk vs. New 52 Bane (I'm thinking the Bane that fought against the Talons and led an army during the Arkham War. He's on Venom.)

New 52 Bane is some kind of meta-level guy, so he takes this.

Scenario 3: Current Fisk vs. New 52 Bane for control of a criminal empire. This would be each other trying to out plot and out maneuver one another. And to make it interesting, each gets to call upon a portion of their typical henchmen. So, Fisk gets Bullseye, Lady Bullseye, Typhoid Mary, the Shadowland Hand, and his regular thugs against Bane, his Santa Prisca army, his lieutenants of failed Venom subjects (the Brute, Malicia, Wolf-Spider), and William Cobb Talon.

Not a clue, I fear.

Hmmm, does money and respect outweigh fanaticism and respect? Who's to say? I will say that I'm pretty impressed with the way that Fisk's henchmen stand by him. Fisk has got to be pretty loaded in order for Bullseye to keep coming back for a beatdown from Daredevil.

Bullseye also gets to kill loads of people. He's happy with that.

I hear ya. Just to be fair, having Venom doesn't exactly mean you become a Bane. That Brute guy I was talking to you about? Well, he certainly is strong:

Interesting.

Ha, we all are, bro. Been a while since I've seen some Kingpin feats. Last I remember him going hand to hand was back when Daredevil kicked the crap out of him won control of Hell's Kitchen . Any other physical feats he have after that?

Getting his ass handed to him by Spiderman...?

Really, Fisk's good stuff is all in the past. Classic Fisk. Current is still just a shadow of his former self.