Darkseid War spoilers: Who is the daughter of Darkseid? And who is her mother?

[Silvanus]

why would she be obsessed with batman?

Who knows? It appears likely that she wants something from him, if she is, as I'm guessing, the "force" to which the solicit refers; if she is that "force" but doesn't want anything from him, then why is his "soul" the "price" for her answers? What exactly she wants from him is something the story would have to reveal. Maybe she has foreseen that he, by some quirk of destiny, is the one who can help her overthrow his father. Maybe she thrives on breaking the most stubborn of wills, and she thinks that's his. Maybe it's just a case of wanting to turn the tables: the ultimate quest object (the personified "Holy Grail") has been pursued ling enough, ans how she wants to pursue the ultimate questing hero (the "Caped Crusader" who is so doggedly determined that he follows his quests to points where ordinary humans shouldn't be able to go) . Or maybe she just has a thing for bats. If I knew, I wouldn't have said "for some reason." I don't even necessarily mean "obsessed" in any kind of erotic sense, which is why I said she might "want to turn him into her lover or slave."

also batman let a apokolips psycho get away because he loves her is completely wrong, and OOC for him.

Here, I think you meant to respond to Sacred Knight, not me; I didn't say anything about Batman loving her and/or letting her get away.

[AlexG.]

I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but I have a theory. I believe there must be something special about children borne by Amazons. I don't know what that is, but judging by WW, Fury (from Earth 2, daughter of E2!WW and Steppenwolf) and now Grail (who are all female by the way!), they must be special somehow.

[Dr. Poison]

I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but I have a theory. I believe there must be something special about children borne by Amazons. I don't know what that is, but judging by WW, Fury (from Earth 2, daughter of E2!WW and Steppenwolf) and now Grail (who are all female by the way!), they must be special somehow.

Well, none of the male children really got a chance to be special being that they were all traded to Hephaestus for weapons and now, most, if not all, of them are dead.

[SkyMason21]

I want Grail to be awesome and in the WW books, I love everything about her origin so far. Kinda want to read Darkseid War now too just to see what she becomes.

[mathew101281]

I agree with this with the exception of this villain failing like some previous attempts at creating new Wonder Woman villains. Johns has a pretty solid track record when it comes to villains - old and new. If anyone can create a new Wonder Woman villain with staying power, it's Johns. I'm already more intrigued by Grail than Devastation, Genocide, and the First Born combined and Grail's design is far better than any of the other three as well. Granted, I probably won't ever prefer her to Cheetah but she's off to a solid start IMO.

She seems more like a JL villian then a Arch enemy for Wonder woman in particular, other then that she's great. To me an arch enemy needs to be particularly important to that hero in particular. Lex Luthor could pose a threat to the league but his particular themes and motives make him a particular threat for Superman. Same with the Joker, Sinestro, Professor Zoom etc. Grail seems more like an Amazo type villain. In short what makes her a Wonder Woman villain rather then just a general DC villain?

[Deniz Camp]

So, essentially, they took Grayven and made him a female in the New 52.

Sure, why not. Certainly couldn't hurt.

[Dr. Poison]

She seems more like a JL villian then a Arch enemy for Wonder woman in particular, other then that she's great. To me an arch enemy needs to be particularly important to that hero in particular. Lex Luthor could pose a threat to the league but his particular themes and motives make him a particular threat for Superman. Same with the Joker, Sinestro, Professor Zoom etc. Grail seems more like an Amazo type villain. In short what makes her a Wonder Woman villain rather then just a general DC villain?

Well, both Grail and Wonder Woman are the daughters of Amazons who wanted to keep their affairs with gigolo gods a secret even when they bore children.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Geoff Johns never ceases to amaze me.
During the Darkseid War, while most of the league will be defeated, our heroine will be "at the center of it all".



See more here: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/04/...fcbd-spoilers/

[Dr. Poison]

Geoff Johns never ceases to amaze me.
During the Darkseid War, while most of the league will be defeated, our heroine will be "at the center of it all".



See more here: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/04/...fcbd-spoilers/

I'm already loving this storyline. I hope it lives up to the teasers and the hype.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Does anybody know how many issues the Darkseid War is supposed to be?

[Silvanus]

Who is the "seer" (Bleedingcool's word) narrating that panel? Is it Grail's mother? If it is her, or some other Amazons seer, it's interesting that she says Diana is "carrying on the mission the gods gave us." I don't think there's been much in current continuity--other than perhaps in Batman/Wonder Woman arc with its bit about an Amazon princess, and also possibly on Earth 2--about the Amazons having a mission from the gods, so maybe Johns is going to fill that gap. (Or maybe Grail's originally from Earth 2 or another earth.)

Well, both Grail and Wonder Woman are the daughters of Amazons who wanted to keep their affairs with gigolo gods a secret even when they bore children.

I agree, Dr. P. And Wonder Woman is an Amazon whose mission--not just in the New 52, but going back to both the Marston and Perez and perhaps most clearly stated at the end of Heinberg's run--is largely to protect humanity from the malice of gods. So, who could be a more WW-centric villain than a rogue Amazon who is also a malicious god (albeit a "New" one)?

Besides, she even looks somewhat like a Diana-gone-wild.

[Silvanus]

why would she be obsessed with batman? lol. he can be impressive for a human, but on the multiverse there is many powered humans much more suited to her than Batman.

I guess that the additional tease that came out after you asked this question may help to answer it. It looks like Batman has the potential to become a New God. That might not be something that Grail could do to just anyone. We know from Worlds End--specifically, the Jimmy Olsen subplot--that Mother Boxes can, for mysterious reasons, choose mortals to deify. If Grail has some way of seeing that potential in Batman, she might have some use for him (and no, it wouldn't necessarily be love, sex or "breeding"--possibly she wants him as a powerful ally/soldier or something like that. Maybe she thinks he has the potential to become a new Moniotr to balance or replace the Anti-Monitor, while she herself balances or replaces Darkseid.)

Well, none of the male children really got a chance to be special being that they were all traded to Hephaestus for weapons and now, most, if not all, of them are dead.

Whatcha got against smiths and artists; they can't be "special"? I always though it would be cool to learn that some Manazons left the island over the years and became famous artists and/or inventors, like Da Vinci or Edison or that engineer from Demon Knights.

But if we're talking specialness on the "super" order of Grail or Fury, I guess a New God father helps. Maybe Darkseid and Steppenwolf had reasons for picking Amazons mates. It occurred to me during Azz's run that there could be some kind of connection, like shared ancestry, between the Amazons and New Gods. We still don't know much about where Hippolyta and the Amazons came from (though maybe we'll find something out in the Annual).

[Blacksun]

Well, both Grail and Wonder Woman are the daughters of Amazons who wanted to keep their affairs with gigolo gods a secret even when they bore children.

if that was an affair, darkseid could very well force himself on the amazon. there is a precedent on that.

seems like the pregnancies happned at the same time.

I guess that the additional tease that came out after you asked this question may help to answer it. It looks like Batman has the potential to become a New God. That might not be something that Grail could do to just anyone. We know from Worlds End--specifically, the Jimmy Olsen subplot--that Mother Boxes can, for mysterious reasons, choose mortals to deify. If Grail has some way of seeing that potential in Batman, she might have some use for him (and no, it wouldn't necessarily be love, sex or "breeding"--possibly she wants him as a powerful ally/soldier or something like that. Maybe she thinks he has the potential to become a new Moniotr to balance or replace the Anti-Monitor, while she herself balances or replaces Darkseid.)

maybe to defeat Grail, Batman will have to lose his sould to become a full new god. Maybe she doesn't really want thim to be her minion.

Whatcha got against smiths and artists; they can't be "special"? I always though it would be cool to learn that some Manazons left the island over the years and became famous artists and/or inventors, like Da Vinci or Edison or that engineer from Demon Knights.

But if we're talking specialness on the "super" order of Grail or Fury, I guess a New God father helps. Maybe Darkseid and Steppenwolf had reasons for picking Amazons mares. It occurred to me during Azz's run that there could be some kind of connection, like shared ancestry, between the Amazons and New Gods. We still don't know much about where Hippolyta and the Amazons came from (though maybe we'll find something out in the Annual).

I don't know who let Steppenwolf be Fury's daughter, but the editor did a really bad job of letting it pass. Robinson said Steppenwolf was not the father, well it doesn't matter anymore. the momentum passed and they forgot WW legacy on Earth 2.
kanto had a son with Artemis (amazon) pre-flashpoint

[Agent Z]

So this makes what the sixth Evil Counterpart Diana's had?

[Silvanus]

maybe to defeat Grail, Batman will have to lose his soul to become a full new god. Maybe she doesn't really want him to be her minion.

Sure, maybe. And if Batman does have to consider giving his soul, or part of it, to Grail, that could even be a way of "humanizing" her and giving her a conscience, so that the heroes can get her to give them the help or "answers," mentioned in the JL 42 solicit, that they need to stop the war between Darkseid and the Anti-Monitor. Johns said recently, if I remember right, that he found Jiminez's run "inspiring," and I'm wondering if he could have been referring to this bit of soul transfer:

jiminez_ww.jpg