Superman post-Convergence spoiler

[misslane]

Not having a secret I.D. =/= not having a personal life.

For Clark, it would mean an end to the sort of private life he wanted for himself. It would mean an end of him not having to be perceived by everyone around him as a god-like hero first and a person second. Sure, he can still go to movies or chill out in a park, but he'll never be able to relax or be free of the ancillary aspects of being a savior superhero. People will be drawn to him to be close to a celebrity, to ask for help, or to spew invective. His future as a journalist or any sort of objective public voice will be in question if not totally off the table.

Is duality at the core of Superman? Yes. Is the only way to explore that by knowing that he changes in a telephone booth? I'm not convinced.

I didn't say a single thing about the necessity of seeing Clark change in a phonebooth. That sort of trivial background noise of the secret identity is not what having a private life as Clark Kent means to Superman or to Superman stories. It's much more than that, and I really think that you know that already. The duality at the core of Superman is between a larger than life alien superhero and just an ordinary guy trying to do good the way ordinary people do. As soon as those lines get blurred, then the core duality has shifted to something entirely new. It will be less extraordinary/ordinary and more public/private. There will be very little "ordinary" left, but just varying shades of extraordinary. It'll be stories about Superman being "on the job" or "off the job" rather than superhero time or human time.

[The World]

For Clark, it would mean an end to the sort of private life he wanted for himself. It would mean an end of him not having to be perceived by everyone around him as a god-like hero first and a person second. Sure, he can still go to movies or chill out in a park, but he'll never be able to relax or be free of the ancillary aspects of being a savior superhero. People will be drawn to him to be close to a celebrity, to ask for help, or to spew invective. His future as a journalist or any sort of objective public voice will be in question if not totally off the table.

We have before us a character who has decided that it's necessary for him to exist as a superhero in the modern world for some reason. But has simultaneously decided he shouldn't interfere in human problems because he doesn't want to affect human progress, yet for all of his supposed rationalizing about how he shouldn't do this and shouldn't do that for the benefit of mankind he never actually leaves the world in a better state than when he first arrived. All that's ever usually left behind is pathway of destruction and death wrought by the numerous supervillains that come into existence due to his presence on Earth. Neither pre-crisis, nor post crisis had actually helped the world when it was eventually swept away and replaced, he was for all intents and purposes a blight upon the human race. The Clark Kent-Superman persona separation does a lot to enable this imo, when the worlds problems become to numerous for him he retreats into Clark Kent and runs from it. There is always some kind of hypothetical golden future Superman is waiting on where it rains wine and everyone is happy, and to him all the death, desolation, and destruction is more than worth the cost.

If he can do what amounts to cosmic gambling then he can accept someone laying into him or asking for his autograph when he leaves his apartment. He's not being denied anything, it's just now he would actually have to face the people he fails on a daily basis and tell them to their faces no rather than just retreating into Clark Kent. If Clark walks away from all of this with a better understanding of how the world doesn't stop being a train wreck just because he put the costume away then he will have learned a valuable lesson that he's struggled with for the previous 77 years. This is all assuming this doesn't end with DC putting the genie back in the bottle at the end however.

I didn't say a single thing about the necessity of seeing Clark change in a phonebooth. That sort of trivial background noise of the secret identity is not what having a private life as Clark Kent means to Superman or to Superman stories. It's much more than that, and I really think that you know that already. The duality at the core of Superman is between a larger than life alien superhero and just an ordinary guy trying to do good the way ordinary people do. As soon as those lines get blurred, then the core duality has shifted to something entirely new. It will be less extraordinary/ordinary and more public/private. There will be very little "ordinary" left, but just varying shades of extraordinary. It'll be stories about Superman being "on the job" or "off the job" rather than superhero time or human time.

The phonebook thing was just shorthand for the separation of the Superman and Clark Kent identities.

If Superman buys a ticket to the movies as Clark Kent and the person at the booth knows he Superman he still committing an ordinary action. Regardless of how the public perceives that is still completely average normal thing to do, again this is something Marvel was able to figure out a ways back. When the Avengers decide to barbecue we the readers usually don't consider it an extraordinary moment just because they're all superheroes hanging. Nothing about having a public identity prevents Superman from wearing regular clothes or doing regular things as people do nor does doing them suddenly change. You can still juxtapose the ordinary with the extraordinary with the exposed identity just because some kid might walk up to him in his street clothes and call him Superman doesn't mean the magic is gone.

[Prime]

I think this might drive Supes a bit crazy. He enjoys the mundane things of normal life.

[misslane]

We have before us a character who has decided that it's necessary for him to exist as a superhero in the modern world for some reason. But has simultaneously decided he shouldn't interfere in human problems because he doesn't want to affect human progress, yet for all of his supposed rationalizing about how he shouldn't do this and shouldn't do that for the benefit of mankind he never actually leaves the world in a better state than when he first arrived. All that's ever usually left behind is pathway of destruction and death wrought by the numerous supervillains that come into existence due to his presence on Earth. Neither pre-crisis, nor post crisis had actually helped the world when it was eventually swept away and replaced, he was for all intents and purposes a blight upon the human race. The Clark Kent-Superman persona separation does a lot to enable this imo, when the worlds problems become to numerous for him he retreats into Clark Kent and runs from it. There is always some kind of hypothetical golden future Superman is waiting on where it rains wine and everyone is happy, and to him all the death, desolation, and destruction is more than worth the cost.

If he can do what amounts to cosmic gambling then he can accept someone laying into him or asking for his autograph when he leaves his apartment. He's not being denied anything, it's just now he would actually have to face the people he fails on a daily basis and tell them to their faces no rather than just retreating into Clark Kent. If Clark walks away from all of this with a better understanding of how the world doesn't stop being a train wreck just because he put the costume away then he will have learned a valuable lesson that he's struggled with for the previous 77 years. This is all assuming this doesn't end with DC putting the genie back in the bottle at the end however.

Superman is not and should never be assigned the role of savior and messiah. He needs to be Clark Kent because having that part of his life all to himself is what gives him the perspective, clarity, and respite he needs to serve as a protector. It is not Superman's role in the world to solve all of our problems. He's supposed to light the way so that we can solve our own problems. If the end result of his identity being exposed is that more people flock to him for help and damn him for not doing more, then it is more than enough reason for me to consider it ill-advised to blur the lines between Clark and Superman.

If Superman buys a ticket to the movies as Clark Kent and the person at the booth knows he Superman he still committing an ordinary action. Regardless of how the public perceives that is still completely average normal thing to do, again this is something Marvel was able to figure out a ways back. When the Avengers decide to barbecue we the readers usually don't consider it an extraordinary moment just because they're all superheroes hanging. Nothing about having a public identity prevents Superman from wearing regular clothes or doing regular things as people do nor does doing them suddenly change. You can still juxtapose the ordinary with the extraordinary with the exposed identity just because some kid might walk up to him in his street clothes and call him Superman doesn't mean the magic is gone.

The magic is gone for Clark because he has to be prepared to be "on" all the time, and people will treat him differently than if they thought he was just a normal guy. There's no escaping the fact that going public would change how Clark interacts with ordinary people on a daily basis.

[Cypher]

What the f%$# is the whole point of this is my only thought.

[Kandor Rising]

What the f%$# is the whole point of this is my only thought.

It gets people talking and takes down Lois, which is in Didio's best interest, as WW pales in the role of Superman's love interest so you need to take down the competition and ruin her.

Far superior authors (Maggin) have told this story before, the world finding out Clark is Superman, do I don't need a Didioverse version of it. Yawn

[Cypher]

It gets people talking and takes down Lois, which is in Didio's best interest, as WW pales in the role of Superman's love interest so you need to take down the competition and ruin her.

Far superior authors (Maggin) have told this story before, the world finding out Clark is Superman, do I don't need a Didioverse version of it. Yawn

And when its been revealed its in a tale, not this huge thing.

I just dont know if its just because people think Superman is lame or that dual identities are stupid.\ Or because they think Lois being with Superman is equally just as dumb... Or trying to fix what isnt broken. Or just tasteless gimmick value.


Superman having a secret identity is such a huge part of his character. Bigger and more notable than anyone other character. The guy practically has 3 identities.

Its just so pointless.

[Jon-El]

Can't say I'm surprised that they'd get rid of the secret identity. I'm kind of surprised it lasted this long.
Here's an interesting editorial on the current state of Superman. A few good points here.

http://www.fortressofbaileytude.com/...ry/editorials/

[Jon-El]

Wasn't Daredevil outed once & doesn't he have a secret ID now?

[JustJelly]

I mean, I doubt this will stick. In Morrison's Action Comics run Clark is outed as Superman and becomes a firefighter for a while until his landlord, who's mr mxyzptlk's cousin or something, wishes the knowledge out of everyone's mind. I fully expect mxyzptlk to intervene again, so I'm very interested to see how the creative teams handle this, and am not worried about them "ruining Superman" or Lois Lane.

[Sacred Knight]

It surely won't stick in the way most things way outside established status quo's rarely stick, but at the same time, I don't get the feeling at all that this is going to be the designed quick fix that Morrison employed for his tale. Morrison's use of the idea was a smaller part of a bigger story. Here, the entire story revolves around it. I mean, that's not to say they very well couldn't use Mxy again as a means to reverse things, I would imagine that's a year away, at least.

Can't say I'm surprised that they'd get rid of the secret identity. I'm kind of surprised it lasted this long.
Here's an interesting editorial on the current state of Superman. A few good points here.

http://www.fortressofbaileytude.com/...ry/editorials/

This was a good read. Agreed with some things, disagreed with others, but overall a solid piece.

[The World]

Superman is not and should never be assigned the role of savior and messiah. He needs to be Clark Kent because having that part of his life all to himself is what gives him the perspective, clarity, and respite he needs to serve as a protector. It is not Superman's role in the world to solve all of our problems. He's supposed to light the way so that we can solve our own problems. If the end result of his identity being exposed is that more people flock to him for help and damn him for not doing more, then it is more than enough reason for me to consider it ill-advised to blur the lines between Clark and Superman.

Stopping a yearly net loss of life in the millions doesn't make Superman the messiah or even close to it. Mankind has a backlog of issues and more mounting on the horizon that are in no way solved by him trying to keep as many people alive as possible instead of brushing it off as not being his problem. We're not going to end up in the Wall-E future just because more people get to live year round rather than Superman just saying "tough" and blocking out things he doesn't want to hear.

Clark can't deal with people asking him for help and can't accept criticism. Not really much of a man is he?

[manofsteel1979]

My God, I think Michael Bailey climbed into my head and stole or read my thoughts and transcribed them in that Posting. I don't want to derail this thread (so in a few moments I will start my own about it and discuss his points in detail) but, damn it, he nails exactly what my problem has been with all this, and Superman in general the last several years. There are a few small things I disagree with him on (EARTH ONE is "meh" for me, and not as supportive of the WW/S ship as he seems to be) but he lays it out so eloquently.

[Superlad93]

Stopping a yearly net loss of life in the millions doesn't make Superman the messiah or even close to it. Mankind has a backlog of issues and more mounting on the horizon that are in no way solved by him trying to keep as many people alive as possible instead of brushing it off as not being his problem. We're not going to end up in the Wall-E future just because more people get to live year round rather than Superman just saying "tough" and blocking out things he doesn't want to hear.

Clark can't deal with people asking him for help and can't accept criticism. Not really much of a man is he?

I wouldn't really know for sure, but I doubt this turn of events will bring about the story you're itching for. Like Deniz Camp said in another thread, it seems like this will be focusing more on the ideas behind the duality and what it means to him. It seems that it'll be more of an intimate exploration of a man of two worlds. That's usually what the best (imo) Superman stories come down to, just looking at a guys life and how he goes about it. The big ideas and world changing stuff is usually just dressing for the stories of a normal person.

But with that said I do feel like they'll touch on his helping of the world and how he could or should do more. I just don't feel like that'll be the point of the story at all.

[manofsteel1979]

Stopping a yearly net loss of life in the millions doesn't make Superman the messiah or even close to it. Mankind has a backlog of issues and more mounting on the horizon that are in no way solved by him trying to keep as many people alive as possible instead of brushing it off as not being his problem. We're not going to end up in the Wall-E future just because more people get to live year round rather than Superman just saying "tough" and blocking out things he doesn't want to hear.

Clark can't deal with people asking him for help and can't accept criticism. Not really much of a man is he?

So the answer is for Superman to be an almost benevolent dictator? A caped big brother who imposes what he thinks is right for all of humanity? To tower over them as a God to be worshiped? A Superman in which Clark Kent plays no role other than his legal name?

I'm sorry but that is not Superman in the least. I don't mean to be offensive, but you simply seem to be someone, from your other posts here and other threads that doesn't seem to like Superman all that much and want to see him changed into something you would like more. That's a valid opinion...and you are welcome to it, but I hope and pray that people with that mindset stay the hell away from writing his stories beyond perhaps alternate realities.

Or perhaps that IS the problem. Maybe those people have been in charge of the Keys to the Superman franchise for the last 12 years, thus the morass he seems to be constantly in.