Michael Bailey nails the problem with Superman and DC comics: NEW COSTUME…SAME DRAMA…DEEPER SHOVEL

[Auguste Dupin]

And that's why I REALLY got nervous when Rich Johnston said that DC was keeping attention to Forums in order to have a feedback about their comic books.

Anyway, one of the major symbols of every single bad thing happened to Superman in the latest 30 years is Superman Returns. I know that it depends on WB way more than DC, but holy cr@p. I'm not the greatest fan of Donner's Superman, but the fact they really decided to produce a sequel to a movie which was almost 30 years old, something which puts SR in the same league with Halloween H20 and Blues Brothers 2000, is incredible. Especially since they tried to reproduce every single detail of the original movie while at the same time putting Supes in the most embarassing situations ever. A lethal mix of "let's please the fanbase" and "let's try something new" without a real plan. while spending an amount of money which would have been enough to feed a small third-world nation.

Frankly, the moment the producers heard Singer said "so, this is going to be a sequel to Superman 1 and part of 2, but not of 3 and 4", they should have realized this was going to be an ongodly mess. I heard it was Singer's idea, and that DC basically went with it because they spent a lot of money in production before having anything and that it felt like a safe option.
Which is a shame, because "Superman comes back to Earth and realizes that basically 9/11 happened" wasn't necessarily a bad idea for a pitch. Too bad the movie wasn't about that so much as about Superman's relationship problems.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I think Clark should just accept that he will turn into a murderous dictator unless he lives a strict life of Buddhism and becomes a full time monk.

He should be fine as long the Daily Planet's staff helps him with his monastic path.

[dumbduck]

He should be fine as long the Daily Planet's staff helps him with his monastic path.

Don't forget that Lois has to retire with him as well. Otherwise it'll all be useless.

[Auguste Dupin]

that describes very well Batman, and it never stopped him from being a popular character

Hah. Good one.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Don't forget that Lois has to retire with him as well. Otherwise it'll all be useless.

They also need to be married. Married monks.

[Myskin]

And as a matter of fact, it took me half a second to realize you didn't mean Secret Identity.
But yeah, maybe it was too late. Hell, maybe it also was too little,because of the context (with it being a weird semi reboot in the middle of continuity), and perhaps also because of the content itself. I remember a text Mark Waid wrote about making Birthright, where he basically talked about why he thought kids didn't connect with Superman anymore. I'd have to find the text if I wanted to be precise about it (the fact I read it in the French edition of Birthright, so in French, doesn't help), but he said something in the lines of "Kids know you can't try to change to save the world and have a happy life. They grew up in a reality where people like Ghandi or Luther King got shot for the crime of asking for a better world, and where Mandela had to spend his entire life in prison before managing to create a society that wasn't overtly racist", and that basically they didn't want to read about a character who only cared about upholding the status quo before going back to his perfect life. He then pretty much admitted that, by his own logic, he should have brought back the "Dirty Harry" (his words, not mine) Golden Age Superman, but that he was too much of a Silver Age fanboy to allow something like that to happen, but that's the reason he gave his take on Sup a bit of a temper (the gun scene).
Not, jus imagine how batsh.t insane the reactions woud have been has he actually done it.

Well, personally speaking I like Waid, but it's not that Birthright is without problems. Luthor's plan is ridiculous, many of the dynamics simply don't work that well. But there is one thing which works very, and I mean VERY well: Clark's characterization. This, and the Africa sequence, could have provided a good starting point to re-build the character.

Anyway, I didn't read the interview you talk about, but I read Waid's original outline for the story, which included the major presence of Brainiac as the primary villain with a plan which was even more contrived than Luthor's in the published series.

[Myskin]

Frankly, the moment the producers heard Singer said "so, this is going to be a sequel to Superman 1 and part of 2, but not of 3 and 4", they should have realized this was going to be an ongodly mess. I heard it was Singer's idea, and that DC basically went with it because they spent a lot of money in production before having anything and that it felt like a safe option.
Which is a shame, because "Superman comes back to Earth and realizes that basically 9/11 happened" wasn't necessarily a bad idea for a pitch. Too bad the movie wasn't about that so much as about Superman's relationship problems.

And the fact that he impregnated Lois Lane.
And Luthor's jokes about baldness.
And the fact that he attempts to create a horrible and radioactive island where nobody would want to live on, with the help of the Beagle Boys.
And the scene where OH MY GOD THE PAIN. THE PAIN. NOT THE BEES. I can't. Think... About that mess anymore...

[Auguste Dupin]

Well, personally speaking I like Waid, but it's not that Birthright is without problems. Luthor's plan is ridiculous, many of the dynamics simply don't work that well. But there is one thing which works very, and I mean VERY well: Clark's characterization. This, and the Africa sequence, could have provided a good starting point to re-build the character.

Anyway, I didn't read the interview you talk about, but I read Waid's original outline for the story, which included the major presence of Brainiac as the primary villain with a plan which was even more contrived than Luthor's in the published series.

I vaguely heard that Brainiac was supposed to be here but I don't know what he was supposed to do.
But yeah, he pretty much had the main character down. I really like Birthright, but I tend to think the part in Africa should have a bigger influence on the rest of the story. It was a novel and pretty cool take on how Superman could do some good and had a pretty good handle on the way Superman could get involved in actually helping the world and, y'know, not becoming an evil dictator.

[Auguste Dupin]

And the fact that he impregnated Lois Lane.
And Luthor's jokes about baldness.
And the fact that he attempts to create a horrible and radioactive island where nobody would want to live on, with the help of the Beagle Boys.
And the scene where OH MY GOD THE PAIN. THE PAIN. NOT THE BEES. I can't. Think... About that mess anymore...

Yeah, it was, like, the worst plan in the history of ever.
Let's just say it was poorly thought out overall.

[Kid A]

I think Birthright is mostly mediocre. You have those initial issues with perfectly set up this version of Superman (especially the scenes in Africa), but from there it just becomes rote adventures of Clark Kent, and Luthor's fake alien invasion was dumb.

I think Waid's vision of Superman is pretty much right on, but when it comes to things like plot and conflict he's just...umm not good.

[Myskin]

I vaguely heard that Brainiac was supposed to be here but I don't know what he was supposed to do.

Basically, in Waid's version Brainiac is a Kryptonian creation of Jor-El's and his existence is somehow tied to the rocket which took Kal to earth. Brainiac in the story appears as a hologram of Jor-El's head.

[Auguste Dupin]

Basically, in Waid's version Brainiac is a Kryptonian creation of Jor-El's and his existence is somehow tied to the rocket which took Kal to earth. Brainiac in the story appears as a hologram of Jor-El's head.

Ho. Kinda like the cartoon then (except for the whole "rocket thing").

[Myskin]

Ho. Kinda like the cartoon then (except for the whole "rocket thing").

Not exactly. I mean, the cartoon Brainiac is IMHO the most perfect version of the character ever. In Birthright, he has no bottle cities nor spheres of memory, he is basically an amoral machine who tries to re-create Krypton's destruction on earth because of a programming error or something like that. At the end of story, he redeems himself and allows Supes to see his parents back in time (as in the published story).

[Auguste Dupin]

Not exactly. I mean, the cartoon Brainiac is IMHO the most perfect version of the character ever. In Birthright, he has no bottle cities nor spheres of memory, he is basically an amoral machine who tries to re-create Krypton's destruction on earth because of a programming error or something like that. At the end of story, he redeems himself and allows Supes to see his parents back in time (as in the published story).

Doesn't sound so great said like that.

[Myskin]

Doesn't sound so great said like that.

Yep. I forgot many details but it wasn't a great plan. One major difference, though, is that in the original outline the fate of the world is really at stake, while in the published version it is just a set-up. Basically, while in the original version Supes fights to save people, in the final version of Birhright, he fights to save his own reputation. Oh, well...