Any chance Renew Your Vows makes it into continuity?

[Highland Chicken]

There is no guarantee that Dan Slott will be a 'Spider-Man writer for life" Why? He may not want to ( and that is just one reason). I am and have been of the opinion that RYV is the end game for Pete (especially since the Spider-Man in the MCU will be back in High School). I could actually see "The Regent" being none other than Norman Osborn, and killing MJ, and him killing off Osborn before retiring as Spider-Man ( basically failing to save MJ like he failed to save Gwen, coupled with having to be a single parent).

Peter was an avenger in rage of ultron, which is set after secret wars.

[Steeler53]

Peter was an avenger in rage of ultron, which is set after secret wars.

I agree with you there, but timelines and story lines can be alterted. The first time MJ knew Pete was Spidey is just one example. The quote "The Last Spider-Man Story" really interests me. It can be viewed in two ways: 1: it is the ending of Pete's time as Spider-Man ( something that been in the back of his mind since 'Amazing Fantasy 15'). 2: It is the capstone to Dan Slott's career of writing Spider-Man ( beginning with being part of OMD and ending with the return of the marriage ( in some form)). That is why the October solicits are so important. If ( as I suspect), Dan Slott is remaining as writer, then the reboot ( back to HS to mesh with the MCU is coming), if not then there are multiple scenarios that can occur.

[Phantom Roxas]

There have been 500+ issues exploring the Ultimate universe prior to the events of Ultimate End, so there isn't a particular need for more tie-ins. Assuming they go through with it.

As for Attilan Rising, there isn't the level of interest in the Inhumans that there is in Spider-Man. I don't think that many people are going to care about stories that bridge the gap. Slott's also a more popular writer than Soule.

In film structure, there's a part of a movie called 'The Promise of the premise.' It tends to be the first half of the second act, when we see the characters doing what the film promised before the major challenges arrive, and give the story a more specific focus. It seems like an obvious story engine for a few spinoff issues is the promise of the premise of Spider-Man as a family man. I'd assume more writers can come up with stories for that than just Slott.

So your problem is only that there is a gap in the story? That wasn't at all what I was asking about. I was asking the effect it would have on the series going forward, and the entire point of the Warzones titles is to be the "building blocks" of Marvel continuity going forward, so by including Renew Your Vows under such a banner, Marvel is sending a message that it will matter in the future. If you're focusing on the past, exactly how much detail do you need to know to equate to the 500+ issues of the Ultimate Universe? Perhaps when exactly it "branches" from a particular timeline would suffice? Besides, One Moment In Time came three years after One More Day, which is the basis for the Regency, and given the approach with OMIT, they could just have it be assumed that things happened closely to other events, and maybe Renew Your Vows could have its own successor three years later in the same vein as OMIT, which would explore any inconsistencies that may arise.

Marvel is trying to make Inhumans reach that level of interest. Just because you believe that people don't care about Inhumans doesn't negate the fact that Marvel has shown an interest in ensuring that people will come around to them. What exactly are you basing Slott's popularity over Soule's on? How does that popularity suggest that Slott is "owed" more tie-ins than Soule, and if Slott does not receive what he is due, then we can conclude that Renew Your Vows is only a "minor" storyline? In fact, why did you only respond to Soule? Why not argue that Slott is more popular than Bendis as well? Or are you conceding that Slott isn't as popular as Bendis? If so, then if Bendis can't get tie-ins with books like Guardians of Knowhere or Old Man Logan, how could you possibly expect Slott to get tie-ins for Renew Your Vows.

Really, why does Renew Your Vows specifically need to be the tie-in that has its own satellite books? What does it say about every other Secret Wars tie-in that they themselves do not have satellite titles? You are making a special case for one story, dismissing its relevance due to a lack of tie-ins, in spite of a promise from Slott that it's supposed to be important. In case what I've been saying has been too demeaning to Slott, I'll concede that I actually believe him when he says this is supposed to be important. But no, it's apparently not important enough.

If Renew Your Vows is just that first half of the second act, then we haven't had the second half established yet. Just because we haven't heard any news suggesting expansion now doesn't rule out that we'll see it later. After all, there's All-New Marvel, and it's been made clear that we should expect new titles after Secret Wars. There is a 50-50 chance that we can see more titles within the Regency's domain. Just let Renew Your Vows establish the Regency, and then it can be expanded upon.

[Mister Mets]

So your problem is only that there is a gap in the story? That wasn't at all what I was asking about. I was asking the effect it would have on the series going forward, and the entire point of the Warzones titles is to be the "building blocks" of Marvel continuity going forward, so by including Renew Your Vows under such a banner, Marvel is sending a message that it will matter in the future. If you're focusing on the past, exactly how much detail do you need to know to equate to the 500+ issues of the Ultimate Universe? Perhaps when exactly it "branches" from a particular timeline would suffice? Besides, One Moment In Time came three years after One More Day, which is the basis for the Regency, and given the approach with OMIT, they could just have it be assumed that things happened closely to other events, and maybe Renew Your Vows could have its own successor three years later in the same vein as OMIT, which would explore any inconsistencies that may arise.

Marvel is trying to make Inhumans reach that level of interest. Just because you believe that people don't care about Inhumans doesn't negate the fact that Marvel has shown an interest in ensuring that people will come around to them. What exactly are you basing Slott's popularity over Soule's on? How does that popularity suggest that Slott is "owed" more tie-ins than Soule, and if Slott does not receive what he is due, then we can conclude that Renew Your Vows is only a "minor" storyline? In fact, why did you only respond to Soule? Why not argue that Slott is more popular than Bendis as well? Or are you conceding that Slott isn't as popular as Bendis? If so, then if Bendis can't get tie-ins with books like Guardians of Knowhere or Old Man Logan, how could you possibly expect Slott to get tie-ins for Renew Your Vows.

Really, why does Renew Your Vows specifically need to be the tie-in that has its own satellite books? What does it say about every other Secret Wars tie-in that they themselves do not have satellite titles? You are making a special case for one story, dismissing its relevance due to a lack of tie-ins, in spite of a promise from Slott that it's supposed to be important. In case what I've been saying has been too demeaning to Slott, I'll concede that I actually believe him when he says this is supposed to be important. But no, it's apparently not important enough.

If Renew Your Vows is just that first half of the second act, then we haven't had the second half established yet. Just because we haven't heard any news suggesting expansion now doesn't rule out that we'll see it later. After all, there's All-New Marvel, and it's been made clear that we should expect new titles after Secret Wars. There is a 50-50 chance that we can see more titles within the Regency's domain. Just let Renew Your Vows establish the Regency, and then it can be expanded upon.

We may be talking past one another.

While the War Zones stories are advertised as having an impact on the post-Secret Wars Marvel Universe, we don't know the nature of that impact. It seems unlikely that Old Man Logan or Future Imperfect will become the new status quo, so I wouldn't generally expect that of RYV.

However, my argument was that the lack of spin-offs might be an indication that Marvel will have opportunities to explore this world in the future.

There are a few reasons I could see tie-ins of some kind to Renew Your Vows, and not other Marvel titles. There are few War Zones titles with the same level of prestige (the combination of creative team and popular character). Renew Your Vows is the Secret Wars version of one of Marvel's best-selling titles (The only Marvel books that seem to outsell Amazing Spider-Man in the last few months are #1s and Star Wars.) In March, Amazing Spider-Man charted at 6th and 10th place. Inhuman charted at 95th.

There seems to be a clear gap that writers can explore, given the period at which RYV went down a different path than the current Spider-Man and Peter Parker being a family man in the released pages of RYV. And there's more of a hook for stories with that gap than with some of the other major War Zones titles.

[Darthfury78]

I agree with you there, but timelines and story lines can be alterted. The first time MJ knew Pete was Spidey is just one example. The quote "The Last Spider-Man Story" really interests me. It can be viewed in two ways: 1: it is the ending of Pete's time as Spider-Man ( something that been in the back of his mind since 'Amazing Fantasy 15'). 2: It is the capstone to Dan Slott's career of writing Spider-Man ( beginning with being part of OMD and ending with the return of the marriage ( in some form)). That is why the October solicits are so important. If ( as I suspect), Dan Slott is remaining as writer, then the reboot ( back to HS to mesh with the MCU is coming), if not then there are multiple scenarios that can occur.

In my opinion, Peter Parker as a high school kid has been played to death in the media. That was why Marvel had Ultimate Spider-Man until they decided to kill him off as well as the Ultimate Marvel brand. Keeping him as a kid gets really old.

[Spiderguy4]

I agree with you there, but timelines and story lines can be alterted. The first time MJ knew Pete was Spidey is just one example. The quote "The Last Spider-Man Story" really interests me. It can be viewed in two ways: 1: it is the ending of Pete's time as Spider-Man ( something that been in the back of his mind since 'Amazing Fantasy 15'). 2: It is the capstone to Dan Slott's career of writing Spider-Man ( beginning with being part of OMD and ending with the return of the marriage ( in some form)). That is why the October solicits are so important. If ( as I suspect), Dan Slott is remaining as writer, then the reboot ( back to HS to mesh with the MCU is coming), if not then there are multiple scenarios that can occur.

This I could definitely see happening, Marvel is all about meshing the MCU and their comic universes right now, but I feel like that would enrage people.

[Steeler53]

This I could definitely see happening, Marvel is all about meshing the MCU and their comic universes right now, but I feel like that would enrage people.

Basically Marvel does not care what we think as long as stuff sells. Superior' OMD, 'Sins Past" And Felicia's treatment come to mind. Of course, if stuff tanks ( like TASM 2), then it matters. Do I want him back in HS? No but guess what we are getting in the movie?Even Dan Slott is not immune. TASM 2, had an Electro story so did ASM. I just think they are going to take the easy way out and send Pete back to HS ( basically right after "Learning To Crawl).

[Stormcrow]

I just want Peter and MJ back together already, the marriage and potential daughter are just secondary to their relationship IMO.

There really is no other love interest that can work with Spider-Man long-term. Gwen remains dead and found a new life as the alternate reality Spider-Gwen and the Black Cat is not obviously the relationship type and makes Peter look irresponsible. Others like Carle Cooper just remain absolutely irrelevant. There really is nowhere else to go in terms of Peter's love life.

[Phantom Roxas]

We may be talking past one another.

While the War Zones stories are advertised as having an impact on the post-Secret Wars Marvel Universe, we don't know the nature of that impact. It seems unlikely that Old Man Logan or Future Imperfect will become the new status quo, so I wouldn't generally expect that of RYV.

However, my argument was that the lack of spin-offs might be an indication that Marvel will have opportunities to explore this world in the future.

There are a few reasons I could see tie-ins of some kind to Renew Your Vows, and not other Marvel titles. There are few War Zones titles with the same level of prestige (the combination of creative team and popular character). Renew Your Vows is the Secret Wars version of one of Marvel's best-selling titles (The only Marvel books that seem to outsell Amazing Spider-Man in the last few months are #1s and Star Wars.) In March, Amazing Spider-Man charted at 6th and 10th place. Inhuman charted at 95th.

There seems to be a clear gap that writers can explore, given the period at which RYV went down a different path than the current Spider-Man and Peter Parker being a family man in the released pages of RYV. And there's more of a hook for stories with that gap than with some of the other major War Zones titles.

If we don't know the nature of that impact, how would you know that Old Man Logan, Future Imperfect, and Renew Your Vows will have so little impact? You can't say we don't know something, and then immediately speak as if you do know.

That was not at all your argument.

I doubt it. I think Slott's using an opportunity that we wouldn't otherwise see, but that the effect on continuity will be minimal.

The best indication otherwise might be the lack of satellite material. There's no Renew Your Vows Extra! one-shot to take advantage of a status quo that wouldn't last very long.

Your argument was that this isn't an opportunity we would see, as indicated by the lack of satellite material. You were not saying that a lack of spinoffs means we'll see it later, you were saying that this proves that the status quo won't last very long. Plus, you don't expect RYV to become the new status quo, so why would be expecting it to ever receive satellite material in the first place?

Are A-Force, Armor Wars, Captain Marvel and the Carol Corps, Civil War, Deadpool's Secret Secret Wars, Future Imperfect, Guardians of Knowhere, Infinity Gauntlet, Old Man Logan, Spider-Island, Spider-Verse, and Years of Future Past among those "few" Warzones titles that are lucky enough to have the level of prestige? I know I left out many others, but I doubt you care about the rest. Those books all have a mix of well-regarded writers and/or popular characters, so they should fulfill that particular "criteria" decided by you specifically. Besides, you again refused to respond to my suggestion that Bendis is popular, and he is writing Guardians of Knowhere, so I wouldn't exactly call it talking past each other as much as you not wanting to respond to each individual point I'm making, given how I had mentioned Old Man Logan alongside Guardians of Knowhere, but rather than actually commenting on Guardians of Knowhere, you substituted it with Future Imperfect. So maybe Guardians of Knowhere is one of the best examples of a book that could have tie-ins?

Spider-Gwen #2 outsold ASM #16. Or is that so close after a #1 that it might as well count as one? Among the books I've listed, which ones would you be willing to concede as being best-selling? Then again, since you made a point about nothing outsells ASM, I'm going to guess that it doesn't matter how well they sold, because none of them sold more than ASM. A book could sell decently, but the moment ASM makes more numbers, it's disqualified.

So the gap is just that it went down a particular path that made it distinct from the current Spider-Man book. I agree that it could be explored, hence why I suggested a story similar to OMIT, but that is not at all what you were suggesting. You expressed, with absolute certainty, that the status quo would not last very long, and that the effect on continuity would be minimal. How could an exploration of that gap not have a major effect on continuity? I could understand there being a greater gap than most other Warzones titles, but if you're placing such an important on that gap, and likening it to other books within the banner that is said to "lay the building blocks and groundwork for what’s next", why do you think that its relevance will be so insignificant? The Senior Vice President of Marketing is telling us it will be important. I'll freely admit to being a hypocrite because I'm insisting that the Warzones titles are supposed to be important while pointing out your own inconsistency regarding "the nature of their impact", but I think if someone in such a high position at Marvel is referring to these titles as the very foundation for future storylines, we can take them at their word.

What exactly are you even advocating for? That the content of Renew Your Vows will be important, or that the people supplying that content are important?

[jimishim12]

I just want Peter and MJ back together already, the marriage and potential daughter are just secondary to their relationship IMO.

There really is no other love interest that can work with Spider-Man long-term. Gwen remains dead and found a new life as the alternate reality Spider-Gwen and the Black Cat is not obviously the relationship type and makes Peter look irresponsible. Others like Carle Cooper just remain absolutely irrelevant. There really is nowhere else to go in terms of Peter's love life.

MJ is no different from all the others IMO(they all seem to make Pete weak in the knees and overly protective), to me she was a younger version of autn may who who coddled him from learning real life conundrums like all the death he sees, instead of learning from the pain and being wiser, instead he cries into her when the slightest little offset occurs. Peter as a man looked submissive to compared to MJ, even though he can exchange barbs and quips with Wolverine and the Hulk.

[DCordo74]

MJ is no different from all the others IMO(they all seem to make Pete weak in the knees and overly protective), to me she was a younger version of autn may who who coddled him from learning real life conundrums like all the death he sees, instead of learning from the pain and being wiser, instead he cries into her when the slightest little offset occurs. Peter as a man looked submissive to compared to MJ, even though he can exchange barbs and quips with Wolverine and the Hulk.

Peter is all about holding the responsibility of guilt. That's a theme in his life. He's going to always be about responsibility. And the heartbreak that comes along with it. Honestly it doesn't seem like you enjoy Peter Parker all that much. You think MJ was his mother, and not his chosen partner in life? Just a young mother hen making it all go away? We interpreted their relationship completely differently, tbh. But here's the part I'm stuck on, having a man show emotion about traumatic events that happen in his life is a bad thing? Having a man be weak at moments of great sorrow, is bad? He has to be a big strong man who beats his chest, because otherwise he's a "passive" (which is bad?)? He can't have a woman who supports him and helps him mourn the loss of loved ones, to help share in his pain (so it doesn't bury him), to help him handle the intense emotional distress caused by his "job"? Nope she makes him what less "manly"...we all know how powerful he is. But he isn't the type of hero that goes around shoving his big manly-ness in people's faces. Peter has always been a fairly sensitive guy...but hey man...it's all subjective, I guess?

[Mister Mets]

If we don't know the nature of that impact, how would you know that Old Man Logan, Future Imperfect, and Renew Your Vows will have so little impact? You can't say we don't know something, and then immediately speak as if you do know.

That was not at all your argument.



Your argument was that this isn't an opportunity we would see, as indicated by the lack of satellite material. You were not saying that a lack of spinoffs means we'll see it later, you were saying that this proves that the status quo won't last very long. Plus, you don't expect RYV to become the new status quo, so why would be expecting it to ever receive satellite material in the first place?

Are A-Force, Armor Wars, Captain Marvel and the Carol Corps, Civil War, Deadpool's Secret Secret Wars, Future Imperfect, Guardians of Knowhere, Infinity Gauntlet, Old Man Logan, Spider-Island, Spider-Verse, and Years of Future Past among those "few" Warzones titles that are lucky enough to have the level of prestige? I know I left out many others, but I doubt you care about the rest. Those books all have a mix of well-regarded writers and/or popular characters, so they should fulfill that particular "criteria" decided by you specifically. Besides, you again refused to respond to my suggestion that Bendis is popular, and he is writing Guardians of Knowhere, so I wouldn't exactly call it talking past each other as much as you not wanting to respond to each individual point I'm making, given how I had mentioned Old Man Logan alongside Guardians of Knowhere, but rather than actually commenting on Guardians of Knowhere, you substituted it with Future Imperfect. So maybe Guardians of Knowhere is one of the best examples of a book that could have tie-ins?

Spider-Gwen #2 outsold ASM #16. Or is that so close after a #1 that it might as well count as one? Among the books I've listed, which ones would you be willing to concede as being best-selling? Then again, since you made a point about nothing outsells ASM, I'm going to guess that it doesn't matter how well they sold, because none of them sold more than ASM. A book could sell decently, but the moment ASM makes more numbers, it's disqualified.

So the gap is just that it went down a particular path that made it distinct from the current Spider-Man book. I agree that it could be explored, hence why I suggested a story similar to OMIT, but that is not at all what you were suggesting. You expressed, with absolute certainty, that the status quo would not last very long, and that the effect on continuity would be minimal. How could an exploration of that gap not have a major effect on continuity? I could understand there being a greater gap than most other Warzones titles, but if you're placing such an important on that gap, and likening it to other books within the banner that is said to "lay the building blocks and groundwork for what’s next", why do you think that its relevance will be so insignificant? The Senior Vice President of Marketing is telling us it will be important. I'll freely admit to being a hypocrite because I'm insisting that the Warzones titles are supposed to be important while pointing out your own inconsistency regarding "the nature of their impact", but I think if someone in such a high position at Marvel is referring to these titles as the very foundation for future storylines, we can take them at their word.

What exactly are you even advocating for? That the content of Renew Your Vows will be important, or that the people supplying that content are important?

Note- I use qualifiers like "seems unlikely" as I admit my understanding of this may be wrong. "I doubt it" and "I think" do not indicate absolute certainty.

My argument...
- The effect of Renew Your Vows is likely to be minimal (defined as RNY not becoming the new status quo for a Spider-Man title.)
- The best evidence that Renew Your Vows may actually have more of an effect than I assume it will is the lack of satellite material.

I don't think most of the other spinoffs have the level of prestige of Renew Your Vows. Bendis and Ennis are probably the only writers more popular than Slott. Peter David is also up there, but he doesn't really top sales charts. Kubert's also more popular than most of the artists.

Guardians of Knowhere has an A-list creative team and a top property, so it comes closest. The word mystery shows up twice in a blurb about the series which would make it tougher to promote peripheral material.

[Spiderguy4]

I think they'd have to write someone good enough for people to forget about mj, which I feel like just might be impossible at this point. Everything always seems to come back to her and I don't see how anyone like a Carlie Cooper could take her spot.

[Tuck]

I think they'd have to write someone good enough for people to forget about mj, which I feel like just might be impossible at this point. Everything always seems to come back to her and I don't see how anyone like a Carlie Cooper could take her spot.

MJ has been in the book for over 40 years, out of 52. You can't overcome that.

[Phantom Roxas]

Note- I use qualifiers like "seems unlikely" as I admit my understanding of this may be wrong. "I doubt it" and "I think" do not indicate absolute certainty.

My argument...
- The effect of Renew Your Vows is likely to be minimal (defined as RNY not becoming the new status quo for a Spider-Man title.)
- The best evidence that Renew Your Vows may actually have more of an effect than I assume it will is the lack of satellite material.

I don't think most of the other spinoffs have the level of prestige of Renew Your Vows. Bendis and Ennis are probably the only writers more popular than Slott. Peter David is also up there, but he doesn't really top sales charts. Kubert's also more popular than most of the artists.

Guardians of Knowhere has an A-list creative team and a top property, so it comes closest. The word mystery shows up twice in a blurb about the series which would make it tougher to promote peripheral material.

If you "may" be wrong, why speak as though what you believe has the greatest likelihood of happening? It's not balancing what you think will happen with the possibility of being wrong, it's giving lip service to the small possibility that you'll be wrong, but precisely because it's so small, we might as well accept that what you're saying is what will happen.

- Where are you basing the possibility that Renew Nour Yows will not become the new status quo off of? If Warzones is supposed to be the building blocks for the new status quo, how have you determined that the status quo has only a 49% chance of happening, while there's a 51% chance that it won't? What do all the variant covers showing Peter and Mary Jane as a couple outside the context of Renew Your Vows suggest? I posted a link to Marvel.com to explain why I personally think Renew Your Vows will be important, so what has led you to expect Renew Your Vows to not be important?
- I agree that Renew Your Vows will have more of an effect that you assume, but how does a lack of satellite material prove that?

Wait, so you actually do believe that Guardians of Knowhere is the only book that comes closet. Just that one, single book. Despite Bendis having more popularity than Slott, Bendis' story has less prestige than Slott. In that case, Adam Kubert being more popular than Mike Deodato is the only way RYV has the level of prestige it does. I'm sorry, scratch that. It doesn't have a level of prestige, it apparently is a level in its own right.

If a mystery that would make it harder to promote peripheral material for, then how about this? What information that we have been given about Renew Your Vows makes it easy to promote tie-ins?

And again, I was asking who would be best-selling. If you had said that you had not intended to suggest that ASM selling more than a book disqualifies such a book from being considered best-selling, I would see that I was mistaken, but no, you are denying books the right to have their own tie-ins unless they can surpass Renew Your Vows.