New Avengers 33 *spoilers*

[PlanetaryDevastation]

yeah it seems that Reece somehow created (or at least empowered) Manifolds in each reality. But mapmakers don't kill universes. They actually preserve them by destroying each anchor earth after they've mined it for resources. Since they destroy an old earth, there can't be a collision, and therefore no universal destruction.

I guess Reece was too crazy to go seek out help... but there's a plot hole there. If his consciousnesses are linked, he should have gotten someone to start killing MMs way back before the first SW... Im just going to suspend my disbelief on this one and enjoy SW

Ah. Okay. You're right about the plot hole though.

[markallenchi]

I thought this was far more interesting than Avengers. This certainly clears up a lot but it's still a little confusing. Does killing MM destory the universe (starting the first incursion) or did the incursion start because the beyonders started destroying earths where MM was dead?

First read, I thought killing MM is what started the incursions. Also, what the heck happened at the end when Doom confronted the Beyonders? What did he "shoot" at them and what happend to destroy so many universes?

All in all, this did answer a lot of questions

[Viteh]

I thought this was far more interesting than Avengers. This certainly clears up a lot but it's still a little confusing. Does killing MM destory the universe (starting the first incursion) or did the incursion start because the beyonders started destroying earths where MM was dead?

First read, I thought killing MM is what started the incursions. Also, what the heck happened at the end when Doom confronted the Beyonders? What did he "shoot" at them and what happend to destroy so many universes?

All in all, this did answer a lot of questions

I think he shot some sort of time machine at them. Since it's their weakness.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

I thought this was far more interesting than Avengers. This certainly clears up a lot but it's still a little confusing. Does killing MM destory the universe (starting the first incursion) or did the incursion start because the beyonders started destroying earths where MM was dead?

First read, I thought killing MM is what started the incursions. Also, what the heck happened at the end when Doom confronted the Beyonders? What did he "shoot" at them and what happend to destroy so many universes?

All in all, this did answer a lot of questions

It was far more interesting. Doom shot a weaponized time platform intending to wipe them using a time paradox. Looks like it wiped out countless of universes.

[xcoijoi]

We start off with Molecule Man taking Doom back to the beginning of how it all began, the collapse.

MM takes Doom to the Library, originally built by the Beyonders when they thought life was "valuable." Now their experiment is to see what happens if they kill everything at once, but MM has a plan to stop them.

MM is an "infinite being" the same across all realities and part of the grand experiment. MM instructs Doom to keep killing him on realities to start the chain of incursions so that they can defeat the Beyonders. He says Doom has 25 years.

Doom discovers a weakness in the Beyonders, that they are linear and cannot travel in time the way Doom has, his assault on them comes after Thor and the Multiversal Avengers fall, but it leads to the death of those hundreds of thousands of universes.

That's funny, I used to imagine 'If I were to write the stories', like probably many of us have. I imagined Owen as one of those few individuals who were a multiversal constant. Of course, that was before they watered down his power levels, as they did with the Beyonder.

[Mooper Films]

It was far more interesting. Doom shot a weaponized time platform intending to wipe them using a time paradox. Looks like it wiped out countless of universes.

Right, since The Beyonders for all their powers can only live by being linear. Caught in a loop or paradox will destroy them because that is not linear. However, since they wrapped in the universes that exist, destroy them and you take the universes too. Basically, destroy the building when you are just trying to kill one person and everyone in that building goes too.

[rukkis]

I thought this was far more interesting than Avengers. This certainly clears up a lot but it's still a little confusing. Does killing MM destory the universe (starting the first incursion) or did the incursion start because the beyonders started destroying earths where MM was dead?

First read, I thought killing MM is what started the incursions. Also, what the heck happened at the end when Doom confronted the Beyonders? What did he "shoot" at them and what happend to destroy so many universes?

All in all, this did answer a lot of questions

What I took from it was that killing an MM destroys the universe. After enough MMs were killed and their universes destroyed, the multiverse starts to collapse like how Reed described the incursions in the first few New Avengers issues. This was part of MM / Doom's plan, as they somehow use the incursion zones to populate battle world. That is why the "heretic black swans" are unknowingly following the path of the Beyonders. By teaching the heroes of Earths about the incursion and encouraging them to blow up other Earths, they are not allowing the incursions to run their course.

[ShaokhaN]

Am I the only one who found that "the Beyonders turned Owen Reeces into universal bombs" plot point terribly contrived and poorly thought-out?

[Double 0]

Am I the only one who found that "the Beyonders turned Owen Reeces into universal bombs" plot point terribly contrived and poorly thought-out?

Not really. I saw it as a call back to the original Secret Wars and it's not like Molecule Man isn't that powerful.

[Shaggy]

So let me get this straight. The Illuminati (and the Cabal?) have so far assumed that when they destroy another Earth then they save both universes (only the Earth of the other universe is destroyed). But when they blow up another Earth then they also kill the Molecule Man on that Earth, right? So that means that they have been killing entire universes, not just other Earths.

And if Gladiator had managed to destroy our Earth (when Molecule Man was still there) then he would have unknowingly destroyed the entire universe (even though he thought he'd be doing the exact opposite).

[MouserGrey]

What's the deal with the knife used on MM? And the line about putting it where it is supposed to go? Is it a metaphor referring somehow to the Wakandan knife and actions taken by T'Challa with Namor, or is it the very same knife T'Challa stabbed Namor with? It was a Wakandan heirloom, correct?

[Shaggy]

Also, was it a mistake when Doom explained that the Mapmakers "seed sacrifice worlds"? I think it should read "harvest sacrifice worlds".

[AcesX1X]

this issue was super lol. somewhere in the multiverse, victor domashev is laughing behind his laptop.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

So let me get this straight. The Illuminati (and the Cabal?) have so far assumed that when they destroy another Earth then they save both universes (only the Earth of the other universe is destroyed). But when they blow up another Earth then they also kill the Molecule Man on that Earth, right? So that means that they have been killing entire universes, not just other Earths.

And if Gladiator had managed to destroy our Earth (when Molecule Man was still there) then he would have unknowingly destroyed the entire universe (even though he thought he'd be doing the exact opposite).

Yeah. Seems be the gist. Destroying Molecule Men causes incursions to occur quicker.

[Andy]

So can someone go ahead and explains in layman's terms just which questions were answered in this issue and what those answers were? Because there was a lot that didn't track.

Did we found out exactly how the incursions started? Was Doom really doing this for 25 years-as in throughout his personal history, even as we've known him in the MU? What was his ultimate plana-the box the Swans didn't like and he considered his "ultimate weapon" or whatever? What in the world happened at the end?


I did read it a bit quickly, and im sure there's a lot I've forgotten from previous issues that may be helpful for understanding, but some of it I just did not understand.