New Avengers 33 *spoilers*

[Biclopcicle]

In the Fantastic Four issue (known as Secret Wars 3) the idea is that Molecule Man's experiment tore a hole in reality and released energy from the realm of The Beyonders. Instead of that power being contained in a Cosmic Cube like the previous times this energy had come into the universe, some of it was contained in Molecule Man. The rest manifested as The Beyonder.

So the cube that resulted could be seen as just the origional energy being recombined.

I have a sneaking suspicion we won't see the origional Beyonder at all despite any front covers we have seen. But I obviously don't know this, and wouldn't be surprised if he did crop up.

Thanks. Yeah didn't mean to imply that Reece was possibly working with AIM when his experiment went awry

[JKtheMac]

Spoiler for Secret Wars II:

spoilers:

when Molecule Man saved the day in Secret Wars II he pushed the Beyonder and much of the power he was wielding through the crack in reality. This formed a nascent universe that was entirely composed of The Beyonder and his power. The Beyonder became sentient and apparently both a mortal man and the God of that universe. In the end when recombined with Molecule Man in "Secret Wars 3" that whole Universe ceased to exist.

end of spoilers

In F4 319 he says this:
Digital Fantastic Four V1961 #319 - Dr. Doom vs. the Beyonder! (1988_10) - Page 31.jpg
Which can be read as a prefiguring of what will happen when he combines with The Beyonder.

Either way, once Molecule Man is no longer part of the enity formed of the Cosmic Cube it dosent necessarily change because of it. So Molecule Man may have been the container holding in the power and once it evolved he could be extracted from that.

In Thanos, they talk to Kosmos as if she is an evolved version of The Beyonder, not of a Cosmic Cube, and in Annihilation she is confirmed as dead (as much as anyone can be in a comic).

[Biclopcicle]

Spoiler for Secret Wars II:

spoilers:

when Molecule Man saved the day in Secret Wars II he pushed the Beyonder and much of the power he was wielding through the rack in reality. This formed a nascent universe that was entirely composed of The Beyonder and his power. The Beyonder became sentient and apparently both a mortal man and the God of that universe. In the end when recombined with Molecule Man in "Secret Wars 3" that whole Universe ceased to exist.

end of spoilers

Good summary. I refuse to read all of the tie-ins for SWII. I tried to and I almost jumped off a bridge. I read the main series and saw the conflict you're referring to, but not what happened afterwards.

Jim Shooter's overuse of exclamation points was painful enough...

[vitruvian]

Also, if there is a MM for every universe and his existence is tied to Child Beyonder, shouldn't there be a Child Beyonder for every reality? This seems doubtful

There's one for every original Secret Wars What If? universe, that would seem certain.... including the one where Doom kept his power for a while, Earth-90251.

[ZNOP]

Thinking about it. If we break this whole Beyonder + Molecule Man = Comic Cube thing down into a simple equation maybe cosmic cubes are the result of interation between Molecule Man and "The Beyond". Such that the event in old continuity (which was frankly quite bizarre) is just an example of a more fundamental phenomenon.

Actually, The Molecule Man's origin occurred three years prior to the first "Cosmic Cube" --



-- which was established as a device created by A.I.M. and capable of transforming any wish into reality.

I'm just saying

[JKtheMac]

Good summary. I refuse to read all of the tie-ins for SWII. I tried to and I almost jumped off a bridge. I read the main series and saw the conflict you're referring to, but not what happened afterwards.

Jim Shooter's overuse of exclamation points was painful enough...

Yep agree, I tried to do the same and ended up screaming. BTW cross posted the rest of that post, was getting the correct panel for context.

[JKtheMac]

Actually, the first Cosmic Cube was established as a device created by A.I.M. and capable of transforming any wish into reality, irrespective of the consequences.

Yes. I am just not talking about that one. It was part of F4 319 'Secret Wars 3' however, in its evolved form. Where it was fully established that even that one contained the power from The Beyonders.

[Biclopcicle]

There's one for every original Secret Wars What If? universe, that would seem certain.... including the one where Doom kept his power for a while, Earth-90251.

True, but I think Hickman should then explain the connection between the two given the new status quo he introduced in NA 33. Odds of that actually happening? Who knows

[JKtheMac]

By the way. Heads up for this Hickman interview from C2E2 http://youtu.be/Z-NjW3DPlLA which touches on recent events.

(As a side note it is the first time I have heard an insider refer to X-Men as 'not a priority right now'.)

[ZNOP]

Yes. I am just not talking about that one. It was part of F4 319 'Secret Wars 3' however, in its evolved form. Where it was fully established that even that one contained the power from The Beyonders.

Your talking about a massive retcon and I'm pointing out that well before Fantastic Four #319 (and, any other rewrite for that matter), Owen Reese (Molecule Man) and a Cosmic Cube existed on Earth at the same time...

[UltimateTy]

By the way. Heads up for this Hickman interview from C2E2 http://youtu.be/Z-NjW3DPlLA which touches on recent events.

(As a side note it is the first time I have heard an insider refer to X-Men as 'not a priority right now'.)

Oh lmao. Hide this from the complex

[JKtheMac]

Your talking about a massive retcon and I'm pointing out that well before Fantastic Four #319 and, any other rewrite for that matter) Owen Reese (Molecule Man)and a Cosmic Cube existed on Earth at the same time...

The issue includes a retcon about the cube you are referring to. In its evolved form as Kubik it turns up to aid Molecule Man with The Shaper of Worlds in tow. These ideas are all tied together in Fantastic Four #319. This is where the Cosmic Cubes were most clearly discussed and explained back in the late 80s as being linked to The Beyonders. I am not sure if the idea that other Beyonders existed was even on the table until F4 319.

[JKtheMac]

Oh lmao. Hide this from the complex

On the plus side, this is being stated in the context of what Marvel ARE asking him to write next. So it also confirms that he will be still writing for them at some stage after SW.

Edit: ok maybe not confirms but suggests.

[exiled]

About the solicitations for issue 5. "Owen Reese died for our sins". I have been thinking all along that Hickman has been using biblical references in the story. I am familiar with the bible and here is what I have seen.
1) Hyperion and Thor ending scene battling the beyonders: Thief on the cross with Jesus.
2) Molecule Man : He called himself the light and said he created the idea of the manifold. God is light in the Bible and Jesus has been referenced as "The word or idea" in the bible.
Very interesting....

[JKtheMac]

About the solicitations for issue 5. "Owen Reese died for our sins". I have been thinking all along that Hickman has been using biblical references in the story. I am familiar with the bible and here is what I have seen.
1) Hyperion and Thor ending scene battling the beyonders: Thief on the cross with Jesus.
2) Molecule Man : He called himself the light and said he created the idea of the manifold. God is light in the Bible and Jesus has been referenced as "The word or idea" in the bible.
Very interesting....

I think Hickman was referencing a more eastern tradition when he was writing Molecule Man dialogue. It was more about the nature of reality as observed by an enlightened individual. The idea that the observer is intertwined with the thing being observed with reference to the media used to perceive it, and that observations of observations are a road towards enlightenment are not very occidental.