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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
    So let me get this straight. The Illuminati (and the Cabal?) have so far assumed that when they destroy another Earth then they save both universes (only the Earth of the other universe is destroyed). But when they blow up another Earth then they also kill the Molecule Man on that Earth, right? So that means that they have been killing entire universes, not just other Earths.

    And if Gladiator had managed to destroy our Earth (when Molecule Man was still there) then he would have unknowingly destroyed the entire universe (even though he thought he'd be doing the exact opposite).

    Is this true? Because if it is, and it appears to be, it spits in the face of everyone who so "valiantly" postured about how heroic the Illuminati/Cabal were for "making the sacrifice" of killing another world to save their own.


    Which wouldn't bother me in a general sense because those people were smarmy, even in spite of the fact that a revelation like this predictable (but not in a bad predictable sense)

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    So can someone go ahead and explains in layman's terms just which questions were answered in this issue and what those answers were? Because there was a lot that didn't track.

    Did we found out exactly how the incursions started? Was Doom really doing this for 25 years-as in throughout his personal history, even as we've known him in the MU? What was his ultimate plana-the box the Swans didn't like and he considered his "ultimate weapon" or whatever? What in the world happened at the end?


    I did read it a bit quickly, and im sure there's a lot I've forgotten from previous issues that may be helpful for understanding, but some of it I just did not understand.
    Killing Molecule Men causes the incursions. They originally meant to die in 25 years taking the multiverse all at once. They are a constant that are all the same throughout all universe sharing the same mind. As one dies their mind fragments and go insane. The Swans realized what Doom said was a lie and instead of seeking Molecule Men to kill they kill Earths. Manifolds are created to find Molecule Men. The Beyonders are incapable of time travel and it is their one weakness. So Doom planned to use it as a weapon to kill them but it failed and it took out them and the other universes not destroyed in the incursions causing the missing universes that Reed found in the past.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanetaryDevastation View Post
    Killing Molecule Men causes the incursions. They originally meant to die in 25 years taking the multiverse all at once. They are a constant that are all the same throughout all universe sharing the same mind. As one dies their mind fragments and go insane. The Swans realized what Doom said was a lie and instead of seeking Molecule Men to kill they kill Earths. Manifolds are created to find Molecule Men. The Beyonders are incapable of time travel and it is their one weakness. So Doom planned to use it as a weapon to kill them but it failed and it took out them and the other universes not destroyed in the incursions causing the missing universes that Reed found in the past.
    Welp. This didn't really much help at all. Ha. But I appreciate the effort.


    I guess my questions are more "why" than how. I could follow a lot of what was happening, I just didn't really understand the why of it, such as why would killing a MM initiate the incursions, and the repercussions of that and etc etc.

  4. #49
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    So, with the incursions explained otherwise, along with the map makers accounted for, I think it's now pretty clear that Val is building Battleworld in the former home of the Council of Reeds.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanetaryDevastation View Post
    Killing Molecule Men causes the incursions. They originally meant to die in 25 years taking the multiverse all at once.The Swans realized what Doom said was a lie and instead of seeking Molecule Men to kill they kill Earths.
    So killing Molecule Men doesn't cause the death of universes (that happens only if the Beyonders set them off)? It just causes incursions to happen? And after a molecule man is killed then mapmakers go to that world and harvest it? And what was the lie Doom told the Black Swans, what is the difference? And lastly, what is the difference between killing a Molecule Man and destroying an Earth?

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    So, with the incursions explained otherwise, along with the map makers accounted for, I think it's now pretty clear that Val is building Battleworld in the former home of the Council of Reeds.
    Well, at the end Doom mentioned "saving something". I think he has been Building Battleworld and he will be the one who sets the rules and boundaries of the world. It will probably be similar to Old Man Logan but Doom will be in charge and the territories are from other universes.
    Mark Allen Chi

  7. #52
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    That was intense. And Doom-centric.

    About time.

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
    So killing Molecule Men doesn't cause the death of universes (that happens only if the Beyonders set them off)? It just causes incursions to happen? And after a molecule man is killed then mapmakers go to that world and harvest it? And what was the lie Doom told the Black Swans, what is the difference? And lastly, what is the difference between killing a Molecule Man and destroying an Earth?
    Killing ENOUGH Molecule Men caused the incursions to begin to manifest. The incursions are still causing the early heat death of the multiverse/universes because of the Molecule Men's deaths. The Mapmakers kill worlds without molecule men and try to find the swans and protect future incursion worlds. The Swans saw the time machine weapon and was appalled by it. Killing a molecule man means only killing the molecule man while killing the Earth means killing everybody.

  9. #54
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
    So let me get this straight. The Illuminati (and the Cabal?) have so far assumed that when they destroy another Earth then they save both universes (only the Earth of the other universe is destroyed). But when they blow up another Earth then they also kill the Molecule Man on that Earth, right? So that means that they have been killing entire universes, not just other Earths.

    And if Gladiator had managed to destroy our Earth (when Molecule Man was still there) then he would have unknowingly destroyed the entire universe (even though he thought he'd be doing the exact opposite).
    Sounds about right...except for reality 616, molecule man is off world in the Library of Worlds pocket reality

  10. #55
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanetaryDevastation View Post
    Killing ENOUGH Molecule Men caused the incursions to begin to manifest. The incursions are still causing the early heat death of the multiverse/universes because of the Molecule Men's deaths. The Mapmakers kill worlds without molecule men and try to find the swans and protect future incursion worlds. The Swans saw the time machine weapon and was appalled by it. Killing a molecule man means only killing the molecule man while killing the Earth means killing everybody.

    If you kill a single molecule man, it will eventually destroy his native universe, at least according to him. Once enough universes are destoyed, then there is enough contraction to cause an incursion
    Last edited by Biclopcicle; 04-29-2015 at 11:40 AM.

  11. #56

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    Any guess as to what Doom had underground? What did he show Strange and what did the Swans see that made them leave?
    Mark Allen Chi

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    If you kill a single molecule man, it will destroy his native universe, at least according to him. Once enough universes are destoyed, then there is enough contraction to cause an incursion
    Make sense. We never did see what happened to those Earthless universes.

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by markallenchi View Post
    Any guess as to what Doom had underground? What did he show Strange and what did the Swans see that made them leave?
    They all saw the same thing. The massive time machine weapon he designed to kill the Beyonders.

  14. #59
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    I wonder why the Black Swan (and perhaps some others who learned of Doom's plans) has chosen to blow up Earths instead of killing Molecule Men? The end result seems to be the same, right? In fact, Black Swan's way of doing it seems to make more sense because if she destroys an entire Earth then that makes it harder for Mapmakers to gather resources and track the Swans.

  15. #60
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markallenchi View Post
    Any guess as to what Doom had underground? What did he show Strange and what did the Swans see that made them leave?
    The Cube bomb thingy Doom was going to shoot into the Beyonders' rift was the thing below....whatever it is. May be a temporal distortion/time machine device, or some other thing. Strange saw it and freaked. Not sure the Swans saw that...or maybe they saw him with his mask off!

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