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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    How is that false? T'challa was the one that pulled the trigger in the Latveria incursion. The bottom line is the Illuminati used the same slippery slope the UN used.... and I don't entirely fault it because it made sense.

    What I do fault is T'Challa faulting the UN for what happened to Wakanda when frankly that was more his fault than theirs. And it's not like the UN could have done anything about Thanos even if they tried so I don't really know what he expects here.
    That was a dead planet. Its like blowing up a empty ship versus a full one. The Illumanti save Namor couldn't bear to pull the trigger and commit genocide. You could argue that they thought they were willing.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    What I do fault is T'Challa faulting the UN for what happened to Wakanda when frankly that was more his fault than theirs. And it's not like the UN could have done anything about Thanos even if they tried so I don't really know what he expects here.
    Yeah they could have: send every hero they can at him. That's what Steve wanted anyway.

    And for everyone who constantly says it was T'Challa's fault for what happened in Wakanda... He didn't cause Maximus or Namor to swerve on the team. That was their decisions. And nobody seems to have an alternative as to where to keep Thanos and the Cabal. Especially since they knew about the Incursion problem and would have returned to Earth if freed anyway..
    "Race is a social construct, they say. And I remind them that money is a social construct, too. Social constructs have power." — DeRay Mckesson

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    I... I just don't agree. His artwork is still not very good. It's far too cartoony and the quality dipped a lot during the fight scene at the end.



    So what I'm getting at is that everything was for nought? Nothing was going to stop to the incursions? Everyone was doomed from the beginning? Everything we've read and seen happen was pointless because "everything dies"? What kind of story is that?!
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    "Everything dies." Then just get on with it Hickman. Don't waste YEARS meandering about pointlessly only to end up back here, it's boring and annoying. What a complete and utter waste of time.
    You guys realise it was a horror story, don't you? Horror stories don't have happy endings. The end of this one was the end of the entire multi-verse, what more do you want?

  4. #49
    Mighty Member neohuey89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double 0 View Post
    Yeah they could have: send every hero they can at him. That's what Steve wanted anyway.

    And for everyone who constantly says it was T'Challa's fault for what happened in Wakanda... He didn't cause Maximus or Namor to swerve on the team. That was their decisions. And nobody seems to have an alternative as to where to keep Thanos and the Cabal. Especially since they knew about the Incursion problem and would have returned to Earth if freed anyway..
    T'Challa and Wakanda are always the bad guys.

  5. #50
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    Really all this is the Ivory Kings and Doom fault.

  6. #51
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spear of Bashenga View Post
    It was a dead world. They didn't sacrifice anyone. It's false because books have words and the words stated as much.
    Again what did I say that was false. I said they were willing to blow up planets and they were. And they did. The fact that it's a dead world doesn't make anything I said untrue.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Again what did I say that was false. I said they were willing to blow up planets and they were. And they did. The fact that it's a dead world doesn't make anything I said untrue.
    You were totally implying live planets. Hence the comparison to the UN letting people die.
    "Race is a social construct, they say. And I remind them that money is a social construct, too. Social constructs have power." — DeRay Mckesson

  8. #53
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double 0 View Post
    Yeah they could have: send every hero they can at him. That's what Steve wanted anyway.

    And for everyone who constantly says it was T'Challa's fault for what happened in Wakanda... He didn't cause Maximus or Namor to swerve on the team. That was their decisions. And nobody seems to have an alternative as to where to keep Thanos and the Cabal. Especially since they knew about the Incursion problem and would have returned to Earth if freed anyway..
    Is that the fault of the UN or the heroes who decided not to oppose Thanos. A very small percentage of the hero community is under the direct authority of the UN. Frankly I'm not even sure T'Challa tried fighting Thanos. The only person I know who tried was Stark.

    As far as the Cabal being the fault of orhers.... sure. All I'm saying is that what happened was more on T'Challa than the UN.

  9. #54
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VJ. View Post
    You guys realise it was a horror story, don't you? Horror stories don't have happy endings. The end of this one was the end of the entire multi-verse, what more do you want?
    That may be so but 77 issues just to get to the point of 'Everybody Dies' is a bit much. It almost feels like Tony was the author avatar for Hickman where he knew it was hopeless from the start with Steve being the audience avatar.

  10. #55
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double 0 View Post
    You were totally implying live planets. Hence the comparison to the UN letting people die.
    At one point they were willing to blow up live planets too. There's a reason they mind wiped Steve.

    But yes... the UN were willing to let people die to spare 2 entire universes. People who would die either way, and people they can't save either way. On this particular situation I'm not sure you can credibility argue there's a better course of action.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Is that the fault of the UN or the heroes who decided not to oppose Thanos.
    Outright said in the book. UN. And Tony and Steve both tried; it's just that Tony's was WAY more effective.
    "Race is a social construct, they say. And I remind them that money is a social construct, too. Social constructs have power." — DeRay Mckesson

  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    That may be so but 77 issues just to get to the point of 'Everybody Dies' is a bit much. It almost feels like Tony was the author avatar for Hickman where he knew it was hopeless from the start with Steve being the audience avatar.
    if that is true about the avatars, then what is hickman implying by having tony kill steve like he did?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    That may be so but 77 issues just to get to the point of 'Everybody Dies' is a bit much. It almost feels like Tony was the author avatar for Hickman where he knew it was hopeless from the start with Steve being the audience avatar.
    You really thought that they might survive? Even though Hickman's been repeating "Everything dies" over and over? Even with Secret Wars announced? If so, IMO the fault wasn't in the story.

  14. #59
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double 0 View Post
    Outright said in the book. UN. And Tony and Steve both tried; it's just that Tony's was WAY more effective.
    Then you can fault every hero on earth except Stark and Steve for nit helping Wakanda if you want. I'd still argue that's not really on the UN. Most heroes don't directly answer to them.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    At one point they were willing to blow up live planets too. There's a reason they mind wiped Steve.
    And yet... They didn't.

    But yes... the UN were willing to let people die to spare 2 entire universes. People who would die either way, and people they can't save either way. On this particular situation I'm not sure you can credibility argue there's a better course of action.
    And that's why T'Challa was willing to let Obama and the rest of the US die. Fin.
    "Race is a social construct, they say. And I remind them that money is a social construct, too. Social constructs have power." — DeRay Mckesson

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