BATMAN #40 Preview/Discussion (Endgame finale)

[Maxpower00044]

I find the opposite to be true, with the CBR user base being where you find the most praise and even here Snyder didn't crack the top ten greatest in last year's big Batman poll. He placed 11, but how much is that due to his run being what's current? In ten years will it be the same?

I don't find this to be true at all. Anywhere Snyder's Batman is talked about (other site, reddit forums, Instagram feeds), they do nothing but praise team Batman. Basically, the only time I ever see any critisms of Snyder's work, it's here and it's usually the same people. Even on CBR, for all the backlash some of Snyder's work gets, if you make a 'like it or not' poll about Team Batman's work, it's usually 70/30, 80/20 in favor of if. And if it was 11 in its first year, it will probably be ranked higher in the future.

[thwhtGuardian]

I don't find this to be true at all. Anywhere Snyder's Batman is talked about (other site, reddit forums, Instagram feeds), they do nothing but praise team Batman. Basically, the only time I ever see any critisms of Snyder's work, it's here and it's usually the same people. Even on CBR, for all the backlash some of Snyder's work gets, if you make a 'like it or not' poll about Team Batman's work, it's usually 70/30, 80/20 in favor of if. And if it was 11 in its first year, it will probably be ranked higher in the future.

I don't think you're spending a lot of time on other sites that aren't fan appreciation related, but mileage may vary. As for the bold, I just don't see it; that's just not how these kinds of things work in the long run. He's the current writer right now and fresh in people's minds so he's going to rank highly now but as time passes he will no longer be current and he'll undoubtedly fall with the old stalwarts resuming their places. You just have to look at it over time, in their prime both Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker were getting treated like the greatest things to happen to Batman since Alfred became skinny and now 15 years later they're 14 and 15 respectively and as time goes on they'll probably slip further. Like wise there was a similar CBR poll done a few years ago and Grant Morrison was the #2 all time greatest...and now his run is over and he's #4. That's the nature of how these go.

[Maxpower00044]

I don't think you're spending a lot of time on other sites that aren't fan appreciation related, but mileage may vary. As for the bold, I just don't see it; that's just not how these kinds of things work in the long run. He's the current writer right now and fresh in people's minds so he's going to rank highly now but as time passes he will no longer be current and he'll undoubtedly fall with the old stalwarts resuming their places. You just have to look at it over time, in their prime both Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker were getting treated like the greatest things to happen to Batman since Alfred became skinny and now 15 years later they're 14 and 15 respectively and as time goes on they'll probably slip further. Like wise there was a similar CBR poll done a few years ago and Grant Morrison was the #2 all time greatest...and now his run is over and he's #4. That's the nature of how these go.

Really, man? Really? Undermining me just because we don't share an opinion? Not one site I've gotten facts to base my opinions off of could be considered 'fan sites' they're just mostly other review sites, reddit comic book forums, etc. No need for me to skew things, the facts are right on the Internet.

It's like yesterday when you were saying that a lot of the reasons Team Batman is always in the top ten is because it's Batman. I showed you the numbers that proved otherwise. I have integrity, I don't need to skew numbers.

[thwhtGuardian]

Really, man? Really? Undermining me just because we don't share an opinion? Not one site I've gotten facts to base my opinions off of could be considered 'fan sites' they're just mostly other review sites, reddit comic book forums, etc. No need for me to skew things, the facts are right on the Internet.

It's like yesterday when you were saying that a lot of the reasons Team Batman is always in the top ten is because it's Batman. I showed you the numbers that proved otherwise. I have integrity, I don't need to skew numbers.

You didn't prove otherwise though, Batman has a serious collector's mentality and as long as the character is popular with the public and DC is doing well financially Batman does well regardless of the creative team, it's only been the few times when DC has mismanaged Batman, or when superheroes in general have been unpopular that the books sales have been bad. Creative teams certainly give some bumps to the title but know where near the bump of simply having Batman. And that's a flat fact, and I backed it up with sales numbers from independent works by Snyder which show what his name alone sells. And again that's no whack at him, Morrison's non-Batman work doesn't sell as well as his Batman work either and it's the same with every one else who's ever worked on Batman. It's just a fact of life.

It's the same here, show me why any of Snyder's work will be an evergreen title like Detective Comics #27, Year One or even the Long Halloween? I've provided examples of writers who were rock stars while they were current but have now fallen, so you illustrate why that isn't the case here.

[Sandman55]

You didn't prove otherwise though, Batman has a serious collector's mentality and as long as the character is popular with the public and DC is doing well financially Batman does well regardless of the creative team, it's only been the few times when DC has mismanaged Batman, or when superheroes in general have been unpopular that the books sales have been bad. Creative teams certainly give some bumps to the title but know where near the bump of simply having Batman. And that's a flat fact, and I backed it up with sales numbers from independent works by Snyder which show what his name alone sells. And again that's no whack at him, Morrison's non-Batman work doesn't sell as well as his Batman work either and it's the same with every one else who's ever worked on Batman. It's just a fact of life.

It's the same here, show me why any of Snyder's work will be an evergreen title like Detective Comics #27, Year One or even the Long Halloween? I've provided examples of writers who were rock stars while they were current but have now fallen, so you illustrate why that isn't the case here.

About to give the Morrison run a reread. Def reading with an open mind not even gone a try to compare really. Just excited to read some good batman I haven't touched this run since it was being release.

Morrisons Arkham Asylum is maybe my favorite Batman book


I've read a ton of batman and the Morrison run barely holds my interest but giving it another shot . If I was gonna compare, I'd say the art and atmosphere is not nearly as great as Capullos work, but obviously that is just opinion

[ispacehead]

About to give the Morrison run a reread. Def reading with an open mind not even gone a try to compare really. Just excited to read some good batman I haven't touched this run since it was being release.

I'm reading through everything I have in order right now. Only up to 1958, but looking forward to reading Morrison's run again for the first time since it was printed as well. (Some day.)

A bunch of other things in there I only read once as well that I'm looking forward to getting to as well.

Morrisons Arkham Asylum is maybe my favorite Batman book ever

Funny, as much as I enjoyed his run on Batman, I never really cared for Arkham Asylum. It just seems like such a non story.

[thwhtGuardian]

I'm reading through everything I have in order right now. Only up to 1958, but looking forward to reading Morrison's run again for the first time since it was printed as well. (Some day.)

A bunch of other things in there I only read once as well that I'm looking forward to getting to as well.



Funny, as much as I enjoyed his run on Batman, I never really cared for Arkham Asylum. It just seems like such a non story.

I'm in the same boat, I've never really cared for his Asylum but I enjoyed a good bit of his Batman a lot.

[Sandman55]

Basically the look of capullo and Snyder's run is leaps and bounds better than the art in Morrisons IMO. But obviously the argument was the writing. I need art I can stare at for days. Capullo gives me that. I guess I've just grown a taste for his art

[Sandman55]

I'm in the same boat, I've never really cared for his Asylum but I enjoyed a good bit of his Batman a lot.

Well I am a fan of Dave McKean. That book is amazing. Horrific and abstract. It deserves another chance if ya don't like it but at the same time, the art is an acquired taste.

[thwhtGuardian]

Well I am a fan of Dave McKean. That book is amazing. Horrific and abstract. It deserves another chance if ya don't like it but at the same time, the art is an acquired taste.

Oh, for me the art is the good part I'm just not a fan of the plot. It's decent enough but not Morrison's best by a long stretch which makes sense as its very early Morrison.

[thwhtGuardian]

Basically the look of capullo and Snyder's run is leaps and bounds better than the art in Morrisons IMO. But obviously the argument was the writing. I need art I can stare at for days. Capullo gives me that. I guess I've just grown a taste for his art

No arguments here, the number of fill in artists present during Morrison's run was pretty frustrating and Capullo is probably the best artist currently working in mainstream comics right now.

[ispacehead]

I need art I can stare at for days.

That's a pretty defining difference between us I think. I'm more open minded to the art than I am to the writing. (Just don't get me started on Kelley Jones lol.)

Capullo's art is really nice. I really enjoyed the art during Morrison's run. He worked with so many different talented people.

But the art is definitely the strong point of Arkham Asylum, and in my opinion of the last 40 issues of Batman comics.

Are you familiar with the parable of the blind men and the elephant? That's what I think most of the arguments here about Batman comics comes down to.

[Sandman55]

No arguments here, the number of fill in artists present during Morrison's run was pretty frustrating and Capullo is probably the best artist currently working in mainstream comics right now.

Right. I will look at some of these covers and pages for the rest of my life. Sometimes it just fits perfectly and this is one of those times. This is like movie quality art. And I definitely think Snyder is great so no complaints on the writing

[K. Jones]

Capullo's the reason I read Batman. Though while I can understand why his boisterous, animated, brawny-but-not-too-brawny and bad-ass art and great work ethic make him a modern day favorite (seriously; this run has some consistent artistry) the kind of whole point of Morrison's run was to celebrate everything about Batman comics, and that includes different artists and art-styles. He made the fact that he'd have a bunch of different artists into appropriate storytelling devices. And also, you know, has Frank Quitely, J.H. Williams, Cameron Stewart, Frazer Irving, Yanick Paquette, Chris Burnham, Ryan Sook, Chris Sprouse, Andy Clarke, Andy Kubert. If it's not consistent in being one artist's encapsulation of a vision, it's at least consistent in quality artists. (With a couple exceptions who I just didn't bother naming.)

CBR Forums tend to get rough on Snyder's plots, but a bunch of us just tend to hit all of our comics (not just Snyder's) as reading assignments, and our Wednesdays as Critique Day, sometimes something to write essays about. We treat our comics like coursework, and come here to compare notes. It's not as if I won't sing his praises, too, I just don't feel the need to say, spend more time during the day on yet another comics web forum when the good critical analysis (and linking to more in-depth writings and bloggings) is happening here.

[JasonTodd428]

Capullo's the reason I read Batman.

That's pretty much why I stuck around so long and Capullo's art is the one regret I have about dropping Batman.

CBR Forums tend to get rough on Snyder's plots, but a bunch of us just tend to hit all of our comics (not just Snyder's) as reading assignments, and our Wednesdays as Critique Day, sometimes something to write essays about. We treat our comics like coursework, and come here to compare notes. It's not as if I won't sing his praises, too, I just don't feel the need to say, spend more time during the day on yet another comics web forum when the good critical analysis (and linking to more in-depth writings and bloggings) is happening here.

I'd like to thank you for clarifying the reason behind something that's been bugging me for a bit. I try not treat reading comics as some kind of coursework or as an assignment myself, not always successfully mind you, but it does explain why I get frustrated with some posters here when I really enjoyed something and am excited about it but no one else seems to be. Maybe now that I have a better understanding of the reasons behind it I'll be less frustrated with them in the future.