BATMAN #40 Preview/Discussion (Endgame finale)

[jules]

In Grayson Annual 1 it is shown that it can be used to make there faces appear as different people not just swirls.

True, but Joker recognised him, so it really depends on whether it projects the same face to everyone...

[OWL45]

He didn't use stilts. I think different artists depict him at different heights.

[stillanerd]

Can anyone explain me please that what was the point of photos that Jim Gordon saw? We thought that Joker is immortal after those photos but apparently he is not.

The Joker playing mind games in order to "prove" he wasn't just some crazy clown in a purple suit. And I think Synder isn't definitely saying the Joker was lying about his immortality. You can either believe what the Joker says at face-value, that he was someone who became immortal about hundred years ago thanks to the pool of Dinoysium. Or, as Batman theorizes, Joker only started having healing powers after he stumbled upon the pool of Dinoysium after Death in the Family.

It's rather worrying how Snyder's run started to curdle sometime around Zero Year. It's a shame since he can write Batman well (see pre-New 52) but his newer arcs have been lacking.

Him relying too heavily on retreading what other (often-times better) writers have done before is what I've been wanting people to see for ages now. His original ideas aren't all that great.

For me, Synder's writing started becoming weaker right around Death Of The Family and essentially turned Joker into a cross between Hannibal Lecter and Leatherface. Because for me, having the Joker wear the skin of his own face like mask completely missed the point of why the Joker is supposed to be scary. Unlike Batman, the Joker doesn't need to wear a "disguise" in order to terrify others. Yes, the Joker in that story said that reason why he had his own face removed was because he wanted to show he was "the same on the inside as he was on the outside" or some such, but the problem is, that was already clear from the get-go. His "make-up" for example, isn't make-up at all--what you see is literally what you get. And that is what makes the Joker scary because he has nothing to hide and doesn't hold anything back. Batman has to wear a mask to strike terror in the hearts of criminals while the Joker can strike terror in the hearts of everyone with just a smile, and the Joker wearing a "mask" completely undermined that very idea.

[Maxpower00044]

He didn't use stilts. I think different artists depict him at different heights.

I'm pretty sure they specifically say he's wearing stilts of some sort.

[Arnoldoaad]

I took seeing the armor in the garbage, was that no deus ex machina saved Batman e.g. no Lazarus Pit, no Superman, no serum, no nothing. He is dead.

If you were to stop reading Batman now it would make a perfect ending to this 40 issue run, period. He went down swinging, and no super-powered ally saved him.

I took this interpretation too
It was the rejection of a Deus ex machina as a matter to resolve the issue

also I dont think it was Bruce in the crutches

[Arnoldoaad]

Yeah, they should. Unless that sound blast Joker used to break the masks works in much the same way as an EMP, which we already know the hypnos implants are vulnerable to. I don't envy him trying to explain to Helena how he broke it while on "vacation" when he gets back though.

an acceptable explanation but i think the easiest one is simply that he just turn the hypnos off, pretty sure he can do that if he can place it into another person like he did to midnighter

[stillanerd]

BTW, I've seen a very interesting and compelling theory online as to how Batman could have survived. Notice the silhouetted man walking around on crutches, next to the silhouetted kid with the distinctive Robin insignia on his jacket? Take a look at the bandage where the crutches man's left eye--the same eye where Batman was wounded by the Joker's playing card. Which, by the way, could very well have been a nod to yet another story Synder "borrowed" from with this--The Dark Knight Returns, in which you have Batman and Joker also battle it out in a cavern (The Tunnel of Love) and one of the combatants has a bladed projectile lodged in their eye (Joker was wounded in the right eye by a batarang).

That guy on the crutches is Batman, still recovering and not quite healed from his injuries. So how did he survive?

The Joker saved him.

That whole bit about Batman saying he created an "immune-response blocker from the sample he took from the [Dionysium] pit?" That was a bluff to make the Joker panic and admit he wasn't immortal. Besides, we all know Batman doesn't deliberately let anyone die, not even the Joker, because he doesn't want to sink to the criminals level of committing murder. And when the Joker was going "no...no...no...," he's not thinking about his own death but about Batman's. Because after all, he doesn't actually want to kill Batman because that would ruin things for him. So in desperation, the Joker, after he his body gets repaired from the Dinoysium in his own system, drags Batman over to where the pool is and, using what little is there that hasn't been blocked up by that giant rock, uses it to save Batman so that their "dance" can continue.

[ispacehead]

As a full fledged Snyder-basher, I gotta say I enjoyed this issue more than I expected to.

Beautifully drawn, and well told.

There are moments I wasn't crazy about but over all, I found this to be an intriguing, unexpected end to the story.

http://moonheadpress.blogspot.com/20...-deal.html?m=1

^ Wowsers. That is pretty good.

[Flash Gordon]

Dick's hypnos can easily make his face appear to be Bruce's. He can assume the facade of another person, that's part of his James Bond MO.

The Joker recognizing him is silly but tolerable.

[joybeans]

Maybe Dick turned off hos Hypnos just to mess with Joker.

[Nite-Wing]

You know this was a very good arc and I don't want to hate on Snyder at all but I'm pretty tired of the consistent "lets kill off Batman" stories
Its happening too much and its hitting the same beats every time they do it.
I don't even know what the last page means besides a call back to DOTF last page

Nice art Capullo is always great but I feel like this whole arc and last year of Batman stories is just becoming cyclical
No one is really breaking new ground with the character anymore
I look at the rest of the Batman line and I see it expanding but now they have taken out the figurehead yet again

[Vil_Dee]

Well, I appreciated the homoerotic fight scene. Biting, straddling, stabbing, heart-shaped blood pools, Joker got slammed by a stalactite. . .everything a good fight should have.

And ain't Joker a lucky bastard? He just happens to fall down the one chasm that has a God fountain at the bottom of it? a God fountain with a sense of humor (he grows back his face, but it doesn't heal any of his deformities from the chemical bath, its the joker face, but with a smaller nose. . . )


They already said that they would be putting "the toys back in the box" by issue#50, that Snyder left a "back door" for Batman and Joker to return. Furthermore, Batman didn't kill the Joker. None of the blows Batman inflicted on the Joker were fatal even without the super healing. Is stopping him from going into a pool that gives unnatural restorative abilities, killing him? Joker wasn't dying, he had a broken back. It's the cave-in that might have killed him (the cave-in, the Joker caused).

That guy on the crutches is Batman, still recovering and not quite healed from his injuries. So how did he survive?

The Joker saved him.

That whole bit about Batman saying he created an "immune-response blocker from the sample he took from the [Dionysium] pit?" That was a bluff to make the Joker panic and admit he wasn't immortal. Besides, we all know Batman doesn't deliberately let anyone die, not even the Joker, because he doesn't want to sink to the criminals level of committing murder. And when the Joker was going "no...no...no...," he's not thinking about his own death but about Batman's. Because after all, he doesn't actually want to kill Batman because that would ruin things for him. So in desperation, the Joker, after he his body gets repaired from the Dinoysium in his own system, drags Batman over to where the pool is and, using what little is there that hasn't been blocked up by that giant rock, uses it to save Batman so that their "dance" can continue.

Although I don't think the guy in the crutches is Bruce, I do think that Batman was probably trolling when he said that his boomerang was laced with something that would prevent the Joker from healing. I don't know if Joker needs to get Batman to the pool, Joker's blood might be good enough (and Batman certainly got enough of Joker's blood on him not to mention he ate some delicious ear ambrosia).

[TheNewFiftyForum]

I absolutely loved this issue. If all mainstream superhero books had this level of craft and command of the form (and, let's be honest, creative freedom from editorial/higer ups) the industry would be soaring. Or maybe not, but at least a whole damn lot better quality wise.

[K. Jones]

Yeah I'm far more critical of Snyder's Batman work than most, but I quite dug this whole issue. Certain issues of Endgame more than others - but definitely Endgame way, WAY more than DOTF, of which I've written extensively how it can't be taken seriously unless you consider it a satire about event comics. I'll continue to say that Secret City is my favorite Snyder Joker story, though. (Followed with a close second by Act 3/Skeleton Key portion of the Black Mirror run.)

But while I liked this, I don't have a ton to say about it.

I predicted Joker would "die" via having his spine broken. My prediction proved true, though I guessed specifically that Snyder couldn't resist breaking his neck, DKR style, and I was wrong there.

I assumed the magical history of Joker was all fraudulent hoax stuff. It seems like it probably was (thank god, because mystical Joker is soooo lame) but I can actually buy into the idea of him being all hopped up on another alchemical solution, because yeah, Batman deals with superchemistry all the time. Lazarus. Venom. Talon-formula. Whatever gunk Clayface fell into. Whatever tank Freeze fell into. Whatever vials Ivy, Doctor Death, and every other scientist was exposed to. Whatever atavistic werewolf/were-bat serum Langstrom or Romulus or Professor Milo works on.

I can buy into Joker discovering that dionesium the same way I can buy into Joker hanging out on a space hologram satellite with Aquaman's brother and a Grecian witch from antiquity and a telepath from Saturn. I can buy the cave-in and being buried with his most powerful foe as a "death" for the two of them. (Heck, I even bought the same story last week when Snake-Eyes tackled the revived Serpentor into a black pit full of explosions and collapses. The old "fall into the pit with your worst enemy" death. VINTAGE.) Not only that, but crawling around all faceless in the dark in the underground beneath Gotham nobody knows about certainly at least hints at possible Owly involvement, right?

I even like that the reason for this current Substitute Batman crazy take happening so soon after the last Substitute Batman take (which Snyder winked at with his Grayson use here) can give us an explanation for why Dick can't just jump back into the cape and cowl. Any other time, if Dick hadn't been taken off the table for a really important mission (and killer frigging storyline) of course he'd have to just jump back into Morrison mode and be Batman again for a while. But what happens if he can't at the moment?

Some other crazy guy has to do it. Enter June, which I'm pretty excited about if only for heavier focus on GCPD in the coming days.

Surprisingly enthused here. Oh, I'm not that impressed by Snyder's take on Joker and never have been. I actually LIKE the fact that his Joker is just replaying all his old hits and has kind of run out of original ideas because its sort of metaphorical for the "ultimate, definitive take on the Joker" premise in the first place. Really, the only thing left to do was put the poor clown out of his misery!

[AUScowboy]

Fer f*¢!s SAKE... they BOTH fell into the pit of Dionisium. My first impression when I saw the man on crutches and the kid with the "R" hat from Zero Year was that its Bruce and either Damian or Duke (im probably way off on whos with him). I HAVE to believe it's Bruce on those damn crutches though, loved the ending BTW..(also Capullo's cover is my favorite outta all forty, and even cracked my all time top five, frigging BEAUTIFUL).