BATMAN #40 Preview/Discussion (Endgame finale)

[Nick Miller]

One word : disappointing.

As a writer you have to lock all possibilities. We will have to wait and see if Batman is presumed dead. His friends did not search for him? Its just not a satisfying "death"

On top of that, i dont want the main character of my favorite book, gone for an extended period.

The whole arc was enjoyable until this stupid ending.

Why in the wide wide world of sports would Batmans final note be HA?

[JBatmanFan05]

That ending is also referencing Shakespeare (say Hamlet)..that piece in the trash.....I figure it simply means Batman or this story ends as Shakespearean tragedy...Shakespearean Tragedy is the classification of drama written by William Shakespeare which has a noble protagonist, who is flawed in some way, placed in a stressful heightened situation and ends with a fatal conclusion.

[Agent 37]

Don't burn me too bad if this is a dense question, but how did Joker get into the caverns to face Bruce so fast?

One moment he's above ground fighting the bat-tribe, the next instant he's travelled how far and caught up to Bruce.

Am I missing something?

P.s. From my take on the use of Hypnos, the way I read it is; Dick (or any Spyral member for that matter) can turn off/on their Hypnos at will by thought. Dick could've been using the Hypnos to fool the Bat-team, but shut them off to see the look on Joker's face when he realized he's been duped. That's my take on it though!

[K. Jones]

Don't burn me too bad if this is a dense question, but how did Joker get into the caverns to face Bruce so fast?

One moment he's above ground fighting the bat-tribe, the next instant he's travelled how far and caught up to Bruce.

Am I missing something?

P.s. From my take on the use of Hypnos, the way I read it is; Dick (or any Spyral member for that matter) can turn off/on their Hypnos at will by thought. Dick could've been using the Hypnos to fool the Bat-team, but shut them off to see the look on Joker's face when he realized he's been duped. That's my take on it though!

It's not strictly a plot hole, because the dialogue at least indicates that "however many moments" have passed as you turned the page, right? Julia says "no responses ... doesn't mean they're all dead" and Batman's like "Hn." And then he goes down, explores for a bit, then Joker shows up. So first some passage of time is indicates, second, some more is shown, and third we as readers I guess have to assume that it took Joker a minute to get there, Bruce a minute to nail the location down, and that the Bat-Family (we don't know they're dead, but they don't hold the suspense for very long that they're not) might not have died, but did presumably lose Joker when they were blinded and choking on green Smilex gas.

Real abrupt though. When you jump from one scene that a character is in, and have him show up in the next scene (without a transition scene in-between to really foster that sense that "passage of time has happened in-between here") you've definitely got to drop a line of dialogue or rationalize how he got there so quick. It has to do with working around pacing and not feeling abrupt or wonky. This wasn't the worst culprit in history, but yeah, I noticed it too. Little sloppy.

[Badou]

Pretty sure it is implied to be Bruce and Damian at the end in shadow. I think that since Bruce died at the end of this story and that Damian was dead too that it is a nod to the fans in how these characters never really die in comics. They will always come back eventually.

I mean that isn't Duke as Duke is close to 16 or 18 currently. He isn't a kid. I mean he was a kid 6 years ago when Zero Year was going on.

[Maxpower00044]

That ending is also referencing Shakespeare (say Hamet)..that piece in the trash.....I figure it simply means Batman or this story ends as Shakespearean tragedy...Shakespearean Tragedy is the classification of drama written by William Shakespeare which has a noble protagonist, who is flawed in some way, placed in a stressful heightened situation and ends with a fatal conclusion.

Didn't know this and it's the best answer I've heard yet. Nice!

[Maxpower00044]

Pretty sure it is implied to be Bruce and Damian at the end in shadow. I think that since Bruce died at the end of this story and that Damian was dead too that it is a nod to the fans in how these characters never really die in comics. They will always come back eventually.

I mean that isn't Duke as Duke is close to 16 or 18 currently. He isn't a kid. I mean he was a kid 6 years ago when Zero Year was going on.

I don't know who those silhouettes are, but I find it hard to believe Damian would be walking around in jacket and hat win the Robin 'R'. Also, I don't think it's Bruce, because besides being 'dead', he would probably be a little more beat up than some cuts and crutches.

[Badou]

I don't know who those silhouettes are, but I find it hard to believe Damian would be walking around in jacket and hat win the Robin 'R'. Also, I don't think it's Bruce, because besides being 'dead', he would probably be a little more beat up than some cuts and crutches.

Damian has the R on his jacket to show who he is and Bruce has the bandage over his eye where Joker threw a card at him to show who he is. It is clearly meant to be them but also not actually be them. It's why they are in shadow. It isn't supposed to be clear and is more of a figurative thing sort of showing how the characters don't really ever die. They will always be around. That was how I took that scene.

[toddx77]

I enjoyed the arc overall, but felt the ending was written the way it was for the sake of the mecha Batman that will show up in issue 41. I also felt this kind of arc would have been better if it happened a few years later so Synder had more time to tell more Batman stories and maybe another Joker arc or 2 before doing end game. I am really curious to know what is next for the Joker since Synder said this was his last Joker arc but he also said he planned on writing Batman for at least 100 issues. I can't picture DC not using Joker for over 50 issues so when he re appears is he just only going to be in Detective, Batman and Robin, or perhaps Batman/Superman or Justice League?

[Nite-Wing]

So Batman is dead........ again and were gonna pretend like this isn't going to have sweeping effects across the DCU. Oh and it looks like they threw Dick in this story as well so its not like he needs to stay committed to spyral now
I was hoping the story would end with Batman taking a break for whatever reason but no he's dead bye bye Bruce see you again in 9 months(or maybe sooner if this Bat Rabbit thing doesn't workout)

[Kristoffera]

I loved this entire arc and the ending. I don't get the hate. The end fight was spectacular!

[Black_Adam]

Man I loved this, much better than Death of the Family. Those last few pages were just enthralling. Bruce's last words were tinged with a hint of truth: In a way Joker is his closest "friend" he knows him better than anyone and what is Batman truly without his Joker? Much better than Death of the Family

Damian has the R on his jacket to show who he is and Bruce has the bandage over his eye where Joker threw a card at him to show who he is. It is clearly meant to be them but also not actually be them. It's why they are in shadow. It isn't supposed to be clear and is more of a figurative thing sort of showing how the characters don't really ever die. They will always be around. That was how I took that scene.

Thought it could be Duke as well? Bruce possibly goes underground with him, training him while everybody thinks he is dead.

Edit: Your right went back and looked at #38 Duke is more of a youngish teen he is at least up to Bruce's shoulders in height. The kid shown at the end of this is clearly much shorter and younger.

[jules]

Thought it could be Duke as well? Bruce possibly goes underground with him, training him while everybody thinks he is dead.

Yeah, I wondered if that might be a possibility. Duke has a history of nursing Bruce back to health, after all.

If it takes Bruce a while to recuperate*, it might also be that Bruce returns before Batman, especially if there are any conspicuous injuries to heal. Wouldn't want anyone to make the connection between them by noticing that they both had the same patchwork quilt of bandages, after all. Obviously there's no reason why he shouldn't tell the family he's still around, even if he doesn't make public appearances in either guise, but I imagine we'll get at least a few issues of him licking his wounds in private first.

* I'm assuming that the dionesium will be what brings Bruce back, by whatever means he gets it. (Joker's blood? Joker's ear? Getting splashed by whatever was displaced from the pool when the cave roof fell into it? Lick your lips, Bruce, just in case.) But as it's not a pure source, maybe it'll take a while to work. Given the obvious damage to his eye, maybe he's half blind for a while.

[Godlike13]

Why would Bruce pretend he's dead to everyone but Duke?

My random guess is the Court probably finds Bruce and tries to make him a Talon or some such.

[jules]

Why would Bruce pretend he's dead to everyone but Duke?

No clue. I'm just speculating around the fact that (a) we have a pretty good notion that he'll be back again and (b) everyone who was checked in on at the end of the issue clearly thinks he's dead. So we're into where is he, and why territory.

My random guess is the Court probably finds Bruce and tries to make him a Talon or some such.

Heh. I rather like that. Bruce, of course, would hate it.