Betsy Braddock: Psylocke Appreciation 2018

[Psy]

Nicieza is FAR from the worst writer on X-Men...he certainly didn't always hit it out of the park but he had more good stories than bad...Angel/Psylocke did seem forced at first but it developed beyond that and I actually started to kind of like it.

He is the worst writer IMO, I should have clarified. I didn't like any of his sotries and thought his characters were lackluster and superficial. I really just couldn't get into his stories, or like his characters. I really enjoyed Uncanny at the time but not Adjectiveless unfortunately.

Angel and Psylocke were beyond forced and was left field. At least with Fantomex there was build up.......

[grinningdemon]

He is the worst writer IMO, I should have clarified. I didn't like any of his sotries and thought his characters were lackluster and superficial. I really just couldn't get into his stories, or like his characters. I really enjoyed Uncanny at the time but not Adjectiveless unfortunately.

Angel and Psylocke were beyond forced and was left field. At least with Fantomex there was build up.......

Fantomex was God Awful...as was everything else Remender has done at Marvel...just because you see the train coming doesn't mean the wreck is any less horrible.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Fabian Nicieza was the worst writer to ever grace X-Men. Even though this is the period I started to get into X-Men. I did not at the time like Psylocke. She had no character, no depth. Then they ruined her more by hooking her up with Angel and forcing her with someone simply based on the fact they were physically changed by someone else. It was a dumba dn doomed relationship from the get go.

Odd in that I'm the opposite, Nicieza was the writer that got me to love most of the characters that I do, and her relationship with Warren never felt forced imho, Fantomex on the other hand was a train wreck.

[Psy]

Fantomex was God Awful...as was everything else Remender has done at Marvel...just because you see the train coming doesn't mean the wreck is any less horrible.

I didn't say Fantomex was good. I said there was a build up to it and seeds planted throughout. Warren and Betsy's pairing literally was out of the blue. They basically said one night, due to our both being tampered with. Mind body and soul, we should be together. It's a pet peeve of mine. People don't just get together in such a manner. A great love story has build up and theirs did not.

I disagree about Remender. I loved UXF and feel it's when Betsy truly shined and was brought from obscure c list state to the forefront. After that run, she was everywhere. I relate to the whole tortured soul aspect. So Remenders run and her current state are tops to me. Again, just my personal preference.

[Selene]

I disagree with both viewpoints.IMO,their writing contains just the right blend of thoughtful characterisation and interesting story-telling.Admittedly,both had their flaws;the retcon with Kwannon is the source of every bad Psylocke story and Remender left way too many plot-holes with Psylocke's apparent loss of sorrow,all of which aimed at pushing her toward Fantomex.

But if I had to pick the better of the two,I'd choose Remender.UXF was truly a breath of fresh air.

[Psycwave]

I've been rereading my Nicieza issues and I honestly don't really see anything too special about his Psylocke. She's decent but nothing about her characterization or motivations really stand out. And, like Selene said, Kwannon and the body swap is the source of every bad Betsy story since then. Plus, this speech she made to Jean about wanting to feel Scott's fingers tense on her back after licking motor oil off of his face is Psylocke's most cringe-worthy moment to date. Kwannon influence or not. I enjoyed the friendship he wrote between her and Beast though.

They were cute here.

[Selene]

^Adorable scene!And everyone seems to ignore the Betsy/Henry friendship now,have these two interacted ever since she returned from the Exiles(other than the X-Club issue in UXM)?

Psyc,I think it's the eye-gouging Kubert artwork that might tick you off about those issues.I'm sure that Nicieza understood Psylocke pretty well,but regardless,Revanche is reason alone to berate his work.Contrary to Lobdell and Davis,he seemed to enjoy using her though.

[Psy]

Agreed, the 90's is a bad time for Betsy. She really had no connection to the stories and was sort of filler material. They needed a female to get knocked out. They needed someone exotic. They needed a psychic. She could have been replaced and the story would have not been affected. Again, most stories.... Ckaremont and Renender wrote stories about her. She HAD to be involved. You couldn't fill any other psychic female and still have a good story. She was needed and that gave her depth. Which allowed her to grow from a cut out who said things like "as you wish". Or hiyyyya, and then gets owned. Just my two cents....

[Selene]

If I should name THE worst time for Betsy,I'd flat-out say the 2004-2009 era,at the time she was proof positive that Claremont's writing had been starting to dwindle.Sure,Revanche was a headache,but what about Claremont's substituting character development with all those meaningless power shifts,that even he didn't conform to(e.g. House of M & Ogun)?

(BTW,I'm glad that we disagree,so that we contribute to the discussion in different ways. :P )

[Psy]

If I should name THE worst time for Betsy,I'd flat-out say the 2004-2009 era,at the time she was proof positive that Claremont's writing had been starting to dwindle.Sure,Revanche was a headache,but what about Claremont's substituting character development with all those meaningless power shifts,that even he didn't conform to(e.g. House of M & Ogun)?

(BTW,I'm glad that we disagree,so that we contribute to the discussion in different ways. :P )

I actually agree that her return was poorly handled. Ckaremont was obviously losing his touch. His stories seemed generic and predictable. The only redeeming point was exiles and new exiles. Beyond the fact that he had her shagging Sabretooth. It was fun and moments of development with her. That too was cut short. The writing was getting bad and then they randomly pulled her for the sisterhood arc.

The 90's was just bad. It had some great deas but kinda got bogged down with poor execution. It was all show and no substance imo.

I enjoy respectable debates and different view points. You like what you like. It's cool.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I didn't say Fantomex was good. I said there was a build up to it and seeds planted throughout. Warren and Betsy's pairing literally was out of the blue. They basically said one night, due to our both being tampered with. Mind body and soul, we should be together. It's a pet peeve of mine. People don't just get together in such a manner. A great love story has build up and theirs did not.

I disagree about Remender. I loved UXF and feel it's when Betsy truly shined and was brought from obscure c list state to the forefront. After that run, she was everywhere. I relate to the whole tortured soul aspect. So Remenders run and her current state are tops to me. Again, just my personal preference.

I don't think that it was out of the blue, a few issues before they got together Warren acknowledged that he had the hots for her and she seemed to like his company, then came the pre wedding issue, and then they started spending more time together and being honest with each other, it was only after then a few issues more that they got together-with them even joking about various X-relationships...and no Warren's previous relationship didn't get forgotten and he admitted that he'd screwed up and faced Charlotte Jones without being forced to...and he admitted to her that he'd done her wrong of his own accord, and Warren did help her end the whole thing for Cyclops that Kwannon was on...not sure if that was more Nicieza or editorial...and in some ways back then she was the tortured soul already, we're just repeating history now...though not nearly as fun in respects.

[Tazirai]

I agree with you guys on Nicienza.. that whole mess was unneeded. I don't think he's the WORST writer, I'll leave that to Humphries. But he did make Psylocke into the mess of Wallpaper and meaningless stories she was featured in during the 90's. A lot of it carried over to the new Millennium also. Power swaps, and Omega level BS doesn't make for good characterization. It makes for fan wanking. Having her get Worfed in the 90's sucked ass, because she was supposed to be this newly minted highly effective warrior, that got beat up by Nobodies.. like Fabian Cortez. FABIAN CORTEZ....... I mean come on.
Then she stands around and spouts long power descriptions.. and blah blah blah. To young horny males, she was like the Dragon Ball Z fantasy female in the X=men.. WHAT IS THISSSSSSSS???? But she didn't do much of consequence.

She stole (writers stole) other peoples villains so she can have her time to shine, then go back to being wallpaper. She had so much history that could have been used. She had her own set of foes they could have used. Mojo was never a focus for her, even though she was his foe, spiral had beef with her AND Longshot. Vixen could have come over and screwed with the team, giving them a new foe. They could have went to Otherworld and helped her with her heritage.
Roma and Merlyn show up and she plays a BIT PART?
They were pivotal to her story in the Captain Britain books.
I'll never understand editorial when it comes to things. I know Ann Nocenti loved her, and wanted to do more. So i'm not sure what went wrong. She had so much potential, I am happy that she's getting it now, she deserves great tales, and high adventure.

[Drakeon]

I thought Fabian did an excellent job on his Xforce run especially issues #19-43. And dont forget Cable and Deadpool, a very good book as well.

[grinningdemon]

I thought Fabian did an excellent job on his Xforce run especially issues #19-43. And dont forget Cable and Deadpool, a very good book as well.

He generally did well on X-Men too...admittedly, not so much with Psylocke.

[Drakeon]

He generally did well on X-Men too...admittedly, not so much with Psylocke.

That mistake he made of not remembering that Betsy showed up still a brit after the siege perilous messed up his plot. Then he had to try and fix his own story by making it more convolted lol