Betsy Braddock: Psylocke Appreciation 2018

[Punisher007]

From what I heard, they didn't even decide to call that character in X3 "Psylocke" until AFTER filming had already begun. She certainly didn't resemble Psylocke in any way aside from being Asian and having black and purple hair. Also, she gets like two lines of dialogue in the movie, maybe.

[CGAR]

@Logan. Yeah but youre not adding anything. Youre just saying they wrote her bad. What was written bad? All your arguments are full of fallacies. She wanted to kill Havok in the 80s. She always had a darker side. Archangel has killed. Polaris has killed. Just because you didn't like something doesnt me youre right.

The bottom line is youre not saying what was bad about the writing. You just dont like that she killed, you dont like her on xforce, you dont like her when she isnt with Warren, and you dont like her on a team with Fantomex. All those things are bad writing? How? Going through all of her traumatic experiences it; makes sense to me why she turned out this way in the last 2 runs.

Answer this: Why was she written well by Frank Nicieza? What did he do for her? Why was she written bad by Remender and Spurrier? How is she worse off? I didnt read her back when Nicieza wrote her. Please inform me. We're never gonna agree and I should just ignore but Im really trying to understand how SHE is being written bad.

[RafDanvers]

https://instagram.com/p/52bb0dMmUI/

DDD

inb4 tazirai's breakdown of technique based on his big black guy who spent time in japan schtick.

Badass!!! Thats what i want girl!

[LoganAlpha30X33]

@Logan. Yeah but youre not adding anything. Youre just saying they wrote her bad. What was written bad? All your arguments are full of fallacies. She wanted to kill Havok in the 80s. She always had a darker side. Archangel has killed. Polaris has killed. Just because you didn't like something doesnt me youre right.

The bottom line is youre not saying what was bad about the writing. You just dont like that she killed, you dont like her on xforce, you dont like her when she isnt with Warren, and you dont like her on a team with Fantomex. All those things are bad writing? How? Going through all of her traumatic experiences it; makes sense to me why she turned out this way in the last 2 runs.

Answer this: Why was she written well by Frank Nicieza? What did he do for her? Why was she written bad by Remender and Spurrier? How is she worse off? I didnt read her back when Nicieza wrote her. Please inform me. We're never gonna agree and I should just ignore but Im really trying to understand how SHE is being written bad.

Because there's a difference between killing because you have to and then suddenly making them kill all of the time and enjoying it, I never said that it was bad writing because she wasn't with Warren or was on another team with Fantomex, just that it wasn't anything new it was that we were getting the same thing over and over again and it was being called new...she turned out that way in the last two runs that both tanked in sales...so obviously I'm not the only one that didn't like how she was written...

Last I checked it was Fabian Nicieza...not Frank, like I said he wrote her as more than just the thong...more than just a simple fighter like she pretty much is now, she's little more than a weapon with little to no character growth past being hurt and upset and killing everything in sight and sleeping with anyone that she meets with no thought behind it, it's the same storyline over and over again, more trauma after more trauma with no change or growth, most people would try to change something after that kind of repeating cycle...

[ZNOP]

https://instagram.com/p/52bb0dMmUI/

DDD

inb4 tazirai's breakdown of technique based on his big black guy who spent time in japan schtick.

Who knew Olivia had that in her?

[Drakeon]

Because there's a difference between killing because you have to and then suddenly making them kill all of the time and enjoying it, I never said that it was bad writing because she wasn't with Warren or was on another team with Fantomex, just that it wasn't anything new it was that we were getting the same thing over and over again and it was being called new...she turned out that way in the last two runs that both tanked in sales...so obviously I'm not the only one that didn't like how she was written...

Last I checked it was Fabian Nicieza...not Frank, like I said he wrote her as more than just the thong...more than just a simple fighter like she pretty much is now, she's little more than a weapon with little to no character growth past being hurt and upset and killing everything in sight and sleeping with anyone that she meets with no thought behind it, it's the same storyline over and over again, more trauma after more trauma with no change or growth, most people would try to change something after that kind of repeating cycle...

The very fact that she CHANGED from killing when nessesary to a need and then a want and then addiction is progression down a dark path. Each step was indeed something NEW. Youre the one that never wants her to change. You want her to be exactly as she was when you started reading her. By ypur own admission you havent read pre body swap Betsy so claiming to know how she should be written is false. She has gone through many changes in her life. 90's Betsy was another change in a long line of them.

None of what Remender or Spurrier did was bad writing. You cant even explain why you think so. All you say is its more of the same which is not true as each incarnation was different. If by the same you mean being on Xforce then that doesnt show bad writing. It just shows that you dont like it. Its just personal bias. Its a progressive character arc that you dont care for.

Fabian didnt write her for that long. He did Revanche and put her with Warren. Thats pretty much it. The Revanche story was a mess and most of that tine she was posing. She was written more by Lobdell who did indeed write her bad as the whole Crimson Dawn/PsiWar saga was terrible.

And using sales as your argument doesnt fly cause sales have nothing to do with good or bad writing. Case in point: Bendis! All New Xmen and Uncanny have been terrible but both sell very well. Magneto and Xforce were well written but did not sell well. The difference is between the "main" books and niche books. Not based on writing.

[Olslick]

I'd have to agree. I think, particularly Remender's run, was very well written. She has gotten darker as a character but it's never felt forced. There's been a clear progression to get wherever she is now as a character. And it's not as though she hasn't questioned what she's done or seen the consequences of it. In that respect, the Spurrier and Remender runs were probably some of the best characterizations of Psylocke I've seen. The scene at the end of Dark Angel Saga, where Warren is dying and she psychically walks him through how their lives might've turned out in a better world? Forget about it. That kind of stuff makes you care about a character.

[Tazirai]

https://instagram.com/p/52bb0dMmUI/

DDD

inb4 tazirai's breakdown of technique based on his big black guy who spent time in japan schtick.

Too late. I could always use my I took Taekwondo schtick an diagnose it. She looks good, rusty due to hollyweird and lack of practice but nice form overall SLACKER! :P

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I'd have to agree. I think, particularly Remender's run, was very well written. She has gotten darker as a character but it's never felt forced. There's been a clear progression to get wherever she is now as a character. And it's not as though she hasn't questioned what she's done or seen the consequences of it. In that respect, the Spurrier and Remender runs were probably some of the best characterizations of Psylocke I've seen. The scene at the end of Dark Angel Saga, where Warren is dying and she psychically walks him through how their lives might've turned out in a better world? Forget about it. That kind of stuff makes you care about a character.

But it's more give lip service to questioning it, she may question it but never really seemed to do anything about it...never said that I liked Bendis' writing, what I don't care for is people saying that a character has to change one minute but then changing their tune as long as they like the storyline...I don't see becoming addicted to killing as being a natural progression, and neither seemed to have any interest in doing anything to change that, they seemed to revel in it instead...for better or worse Betsy now has no connection to the main X-storylines...

[Olslick]

But it's more give lip service to questioning it, she may question it but never really seemed to do anything about it...never said that I liked Bendis' writing, what I don't care for is people saying that a character has to change one minute but then changing their tune as long as they like the storyline...I don't see becoming addicted to killing as being a natural progression, and neither seemed to have any interest in doing anything to change that, they seemed to revel in it instead...for better or worse Betsy now has no connection to the main X-storylines...

I could go over the minutia of her character arc over the last couple years and talk about how she isn't "addicted to killing" and only does it when it's the last resort... I could talk about story arcs involving her brothers and the shame she's experienced for doing what she perceived as necessary. It would also maybe be appropriate to talk about the arc where she saw herself in the future and what the preemptive-killing-as-tactic would do to her and society and how she vowed never to do it again... Or maybe the issue where she killed a lot of bad guys basically because she sees herself as so tainted as a human being that she wouldn't want what's happened to her soul to be a burden anyone else should bare... That would prolly be relevant.

You ought to read some of the stories you're referring to. If you did, you might actually like them. Also, none of that was written by Bendis.

[Drakeon]

But it's more give lip service to questioning it, she may question it but never really seemed to do anything about it...never said that I liked Bendis' writing, what I don't care for is people saying that a character has to change one minute but then changing their tune as long as they like the storyline...I don't see becoming addicted to killing as being a natural progression, and neither seemed to have any interest in doing anything to change that, they seemed to revel in it instead...for better or worse Betsy now has no connection to the main X-storylines...

What main X-Storylines? Cyclops meaningless revolution? The all new brats non direction?

I consider Betsy luck that she actually had storylines rather than be background in the Cyclops drama show

Of course writers reveled in her kill arc because its an interesting premise and the majority of fans like it.

[MetalPsyc]

Yeah.. since Bendis run on UXM and ANXM, there's no clear direction of the X-Men. The Revolution seems like a non existing thing. Even his storyline regarding the future X-men/Brotherhood are meaningless since Eva re-wrote the history.

I'm liking Betsy's character arc since Remender/Gillen through Spurrier. Wood cemented the psy-weaponry and wrote a capable Betsy. Betsy also won CBR's hero of the year under Remender's pen.

[Blu Berri]

Iirc, Betsy loved killing in the 90s too. The one-shot in X-men Unlimited had Logan lamenting he and Betsy would never have ritualistic drinks where they gloat about the dangerous situations they've narrowly survived and all the people they've killed after she died.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

What main X-Storylines? Cyclops meaningless revolution? The all new brats non direction?

I consider Betsy luck that she actually had storylines rather than be background in the Cyclops drama show

Of course writers reveled in her kill arc because its an interesting premise and the majority of fans like it.

Majority of fans...yeah that's why she's been in like three straight kill kill kill series that got canceled due to low sales so I wouldn't call that the majority of fans...never said that she didn't kill, only that it wasn't an everyday happening and not something that she was "addicted" to.

She had storylines that don't really amount to much in the grand scheme of things, and yes I know the comeback that you'll all have for that.

[Hariel0079]

Iirc, Betsy loved killing in the 90s too. The one-shot in X-men Unlimited had Logan lamenting he and Betsy would never have ritualistic drinks where they gloat about the dangerous situations they've narrowly survived and all the people they've killed after she died.

She never really loved killing it was an add on to the idea that Claremont laid out during the out back era in the 90s. It's more of the fact she's ok with it. Obviously that's changed since remender/spurrier. She has a line.

What's interesting that in both 80's and 90's storm also and still is of a similar mind set. Brian Wood is the only person to canonically remind us of that in adj. The only person who had a problem was Rachel.