Betsy Braddock: Psylocke Appreciation 2018

[Punisher007]

For most people, going cold turkey and being put in jail is the solution to this certain addiction. Maybe she should consider it, it's what we do with murderers after all.

If that were the case, I could think of LOTS of Marvel "heroes" who should be rotting in prison right now (including more than a few X-Men).

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Yes, Matsuo was revenge. I was just saying she had been used and abused, had her life stolen away from her again. Tossed into alt dimensions and forced into her old body only to lose it again and then to see that body both disfugured and obliterated. She talks about not knowing who she was anymore. Killing Matsuo was revenge for that but also the act let her be in control of her own destiny.

Even before Matsuo she thought lethal action was needed. So her joining Logans hit squad was a natural progression.

So then it's basically what Kyle and Yost did to Warren...yet that was panned by fans and this was praised...there's a big difference between acknoeledging that what you're doing is wrong and that you want to stop and actually doing something about it, my point was that Remender, Humphries, and Spurrier never actually had her do anything about it, she gave it only token statements with them never having any interest in her actually changing anything...

I bring up the sales thing again because if Betsy has so many fans then that'd mean that many of them were not buying the book, not having a job, no local comic book stores, and the idea that if you don't like what's going on in the book then don't buy it is keeping me from buying X-books...

I wonder how much flak a future writer would get if they just retconned the addiction away or changed it so that she's no longer addicted to killing, I'd guess they'd get a lot of flak that hate for Betsy to change from their preferred version of her despite telling me that she has to change from how I like to see her...and no that doesn't mean a white picket fence version where everything is great...

And hadn't she gotten over Matsuo and what he did years if not a decade earlier...

[Drakeon]

So then it's basically what Kyle and Yost did to Warren...yet that was panned by fans and this was praised...there's a big difference between acknoeledging that what you're doing is wrong and that you want to stop and actually doing something about it, my point was that Remender, Humphries, and Spurrier never actually had her do anything about it, she gave it only token statements with them never having any interest in her actually changing anything...

I bring up the sales thing again because if Betsy has so many fans then that'd mean that many of them were not buying the book, not having a job, no local comic book stores, and the idea that if you don't like what's going on in the book then don't buy it is keeping me from buying X-books...

I wonder how much flak a future writer would get if they just retconned the addiction away or changed it so that she's no longer addicted to killing, I'd guess they'd get a lot of flak that hate for Betsy to change from their preferred version of her despite telling me that she has to change from how I like to see her...and no that doesn't mean a white picket fence version where everything is great...

And hadn't she gotten over Matsuo and what he did years if not a decade earlier...

You dont get over something like losing your body and then watching it get destroyed.

I for one loved what Kyle and Yost did to Warren. He made a boring character (imo) into an interesting one.

If Betsy changes I would be fine with it as long as it all makes sense. As I have loved all her incarnations and am not stuck on one era of her existence.

[Drakeon]

That wasn't an ongoing plot. Before her mini!?, the 90's and her tenure in exiles and Excalibur!? That was all Crimson dawn mess. That wasn't really anything to go on if at all. She was all over the place. Remender, once again used her due to availability not so much progression.

Im talking story wise not why the writer used her. Its what he did with her. A good writer uses the continuity to empower his story. He did that.

Betsy died. Came back and yes was all over the place in Exiles and she was hunted and scared of Slaymaster. Who, much like Vargas was a challenge to her and she finally overcame her fear and killed Slaymaster. She was then yanked from that oifeninto her old body and then lost it again. She was pissed and had had enough of being used and abused. She felt the need to take lethal action. From a character standpoint it makes perfect sense why she would be will willing to kill.

So yes, Remender used her cause she was available but thats not at all what Im discussing here. Her reasonings in story called back to her recent history. She was now in more control of her life for the time on quite a while and felt killing was nessessary. Which is why Wolverine would allow her to be on his secret death squad

[Hariel0079]

Im talking story wise not why the writer used her. Its what he did with her. A good writer uses the continuity to empower his story. He did that.

availability works hand in hand for writers with continuity and some have shown they don't know it. If not availible then they deal with what they got. UXM and adj. team were form on this.

Betsy died. Came back and yes was all over the place in Exiles and she was hunted and scared of Slaymaster. Who, much like Vargas was a challenge to her and she finally overcame her fear and killed Slaymaster. She was then yanked from that oifeninto her old body and then lost it again. She was pissed and had had enough of being used and abused. She felt the need to take lethal action. From a character standpoint it makes perfect sense why she would be will willing to kill.

Umm... no, not really. Cause when she died she came back by her brother and was used in CC final run in UXM. Her powers were altered and no longer had the crimson dawn mark which was playing an effect on her mentality on the time which was noticeable, the exiles didn't have much of anything other than she got retrained. None of that really has anything to do with her willing to kill. Story and character standpoint it was a mess. The only anger that was shown was at Bishop and those who she blamed ruined her life. It's interesting in itself cause it all started with the perilous seige. a choice that betsy made.

So yes, Remender used her cause she was available but thats not at all what Im discussing here. Her reasonings in story called back to her recent history. She was now in more control of her life for the time on quite a while and felt killing was nessessary. Which is why Wolverine would allow her to be on his secret death squad

Honestly i think your reaching here, and once again writers pick their characters do to availability and what will work. That does add to whatever it is they had to achieve. Betsy's call back to her "recent" history really didn't mean anything. Betsy felt killing was necessary started started in UXF after schism based on logan's view, not something that happen naturally for her. Betsy was ok with killing and doesn't judge others hence the famous 80's panel when her and storm were considering on killing havoc. In 2007 during Nation X when cyclops gave the order to be on standby to kill betsy was uncomfortable with it. When remender picked and used her continuity had nothing to do with it. He didn't even know it. He was learning it as he went along. (he mentioned it on his twitter years ago) Logan asked her he didn't allow her. Much like in Spurrier's run where Betsy and Cable talk, same thing was happening with Betsy. Hell in UXF she was the first person to stand in the way from killing poccy. So in every sense since UXF and even in XF Betsy has shown time and time again she has a line and she knows how it effects her. She's "WILLING" to kill but doesn't think it's necessary. Two different idea's and makes sense for her character progression. So her on UXM current roster for Nov. in terms of the teaser premise makes sense for that perspective, but for a character standpoint and continuity wise it sticks out simply cause it destroys the idea and point of why they stopped Cable. Ideally cable was/is doing the same thing as magneto. 8 months doesn't necessarily mean "Dramatic" change even in comic books. As far as we're concerned she can still be the same or there for a completely different reasoning. Being there for a completely different reasoning interms of "progression" makes the most sense. It is Magneto's team and he assembled them. The ultimate question is how all things considering.

[MetalPsyc]

We've seen a glimpse of Psylocke's view about killing before UXF. And I think the real progression starts in UXF. Even in UXF she started as hesitant killer, until she feels the thrill of killing the Reavers. So for me the progression made sense.

[WallStreeter]

So then it's basically what Kyle and Yost did to Warren...yet that was panned by fans and this was praised...there's a big difference between acknoeledging that what you're doing is wrong and that you want to stop and actually doing something about it, my point was that Remender, Humphries, and Spurrier never actually had her do anything about it, she gave it only token statements with them never having any interest in her actually changing anything...

I bring up the sales thing again because if Betsy has so many fans then that'd mean that many of them were not buying the book, not having a job, no local comic book stores, and the idea that if you don't like what's going on in the book then don't buy it is keeping me from buying X-books...

I wonder how much flak a future writer would get if they just retconned the addiction away or changed it so that she's no longer addicted to killing, I'd guess they'd get a lot of flak that hate for Betsy to change from their preferred version of her despite telling me that she has to change from how I like to see her...and no that doesn't mean a white picket fence version where everything is great...

And hadn't she gotten over Matsuo and what he did years if not a decade earlier...

If a later writer ignored the addiction for killing? If he wrote Psylocke well I think he would get no hate. An addiction to killing is not central to her character and I don't like her portrayed this way.

[Hariel0079]

The glimpses we get before uxf came more from that Crimson dawn mess. Betsy is/was willing to kill has been there since the 80's. The "nesscity" started in uxf (we know why due to decemination) and from that we've seen what it's came to with her. Both remender and spurrier do a very excellent job in giving and can't be disacknowledged.

[Hariel0079]

We've seen a glimpse of Psylocke's view about killing before UXF. And I think the real progression starts in UXF. Even in UXF she started as hesitant killer, until she feels the thrill of killing the Reavers. So for me the progression made sense.

She was more worried about the "thrill" and feared it.

[spark627]

What is everyone's opinion of the most recent X-Force series (with Betsy and Cable)? Is it worth reading? I would only be reading it for Psylocke.

[Drakeon]

The glimpses we get before uxf came more from that Crimson dawn mess. Betsy is/was willing to kill has been there since the 80's. The "nesscity" started in uxf (we know why due to decemination) and from that we've seen what it's came to with her. Both remender and spurrier do a very excellent job in giving and can't be disacknowledged.

I beleive we are talking about the same thing from two different angles as I dont disagree with you per se.

Crimson Dawn was just stupid and didnt have much to do with killing at all

Betsy had always been lethal. But the specific arc that started focusing on it was in Psylocke #1. She argues with Wolverine about it. (Hes such a hypocrite lol) and it sets up her later revenge against Matsuo in that same mini series.

That mini was before Uncanny Xforce. Regardless of what Remender knew or planned it was built up in her character. It made sense for her to be on such a team. Thats all Im saying.

[Drakeon]

What is everyone's opinion of the most recent X-Force series (with Betsy and Cable)? Is it worth reading? I would only be reading it for Psylocke.

It has some great Psylocke scenes. She has alot of focus. The art, you either love it or hate it, but the writing is excellent.

Think: Psylocke being written by a brit!

It was very enjoyable and a bit dark.

Definitely check it out.

[Zhaxra]

Ugh... the Crimson Dawn storyline. I haven't read that in a while, but I remember that it felt off to me. I think it'd be a little better if Logan, not Warren (he'd still be there as the boyfiend), was the one who had the piece of Betsy's soul in him. With the bond and trust Betsy and Logan had developed from her change to a ninja, it made more sense to me if it was him.

Of course every writer seemed to forget about his bond with Betsy (more than likely they were made to ignore it by editorial, who wasn't doing their job correctly at that time).

---

Olivia Munn is looking pretty good there. Hope the movie uses Psylocke's psionic illusions in conjunction with the martial arts as her fighting style. Or hope beyond hope, they give her one of her trademark Marvel vs Capcom moves.

[The Fury]

If that were the case, I could think of LOTS of Marvel "heroes" who should be rotting in prison right now (including more than a few X-Men).

You got my point. You know Angel used to say "We're X-men, we don't kill." X-force was such an insult to many characters.

[Hariel0079]

I beleive we are talking about the same thing from two different angles as I dont disagree with you per se.

I don't think we are.

Crimson Dawn was just stupid and didnt have much to do with killing at all

Betsy had always been lethal. But the specific arc that started focusing on it was in Psylocke #1. She argues with Wolverine about it. (Hes such a hypocrite lol) and it sets up her later revenge against Matsuo in that same mini series.

that's false. betsy wasn't always lethal, that much is obvious since the first time she faced a different reality ver. of her brother Brian and also the first time she faced sabertooth.

Psylocke #1 started with betsy burying her original body, (takes place after the SH arc) and was ambushed. The only argument that happens between her and logan is who was going to deal with Matsuo as by the time Betsy got there she in shock/horrified to the fact at logan's tortureqe methods on matsuo. there was no hypocrisy in it.

That mini was before Uncanny Xforce. Regardless of what Remender knew or planned it was built up in her character. It made sense for her to be on such a team. Thats all Im saying.

The mini doesn't sum up betsy but i notice something in all your posts, you seem to dis-acknowlege a lot of betsy's backstory for your "angle" and remender didn't look through just the mini as the shadow king and otherworld connection isn't even hinted at such. Don't understand why you worded that line as such to suggest such a thing.