Betsy Braddock: Psylocke Appreciation 2018

[Havok83]

Not necessarily. If there were more instances of all this Bi-Sexualness and Sexual Fluidness most of us would be okay. I write a Bi-sexual Betsy
(Eliza) and it's a natural thing as she's always been that way and never hid it. Making her Bi-sexual for bisexuals sake does what?
It's one of the reasons I never had an issue with Northstar's coming out, but despised how they did it with Iceman.

I think if thats the case then she should have never gotten involved in a sexual relationship with Cluster. It wasnt a one time thing she did bc she was confused and experimenting. She was having sex with a woman and presumably liked it. You dont do that unless theres some level of sexual attraction. I did not like it either but it happened and cant simply be ignored and dismissed

[Psy]

You don't Publish her in a comic on a monthly basis or have any more direct inpu ton what she is than I do. You can say she is and add period at the end. If Marvel doesn't agree with you, then Marvel doesn't agree with you.
Kwannon and Betsy as a couple is a terrible idea, but hey that's just my opinion.

She had sex with a female and is fluid or bisexual. Not even marvel has the authority to overpower sexual identities. She is bisexual. Whether you like it or not. Facts are facts.

That's nice, there a lots of terrible ideas floating around here lately.....

[Beetle]

Cluster was one of Fantomex's 3 brains, each with their own personality and identity. That's why she was given a female body once she was separated from the other two, that has always been her gender. Cluster's personality was the one that Betsy fell for.

It's more like Betsy being in a relationship with someone who has transitioned and continuing that relationship. Does that necessarily make Betsy bi? At the very least she seems open to the possibility

[Psy]

Cluster was one of Fantomex's 3 brains, each with their own personality and identity. That's why she was given a female body once she was separated from the other two, that has always been her gender. Cluster's personality was the one that Betsy fell for.

It's more like Betsy being in a relationship with someone who has transitioned and continuing that relationship. Does that necessarily make Betsy bi? At the very least she seems open to the possibility

Of course it does. Sexual identity is very specific. As I have pointed out. I am a gay man. If my partner decides to be female we are seeing a divorce lawyer. I am full blown gay. No attraction to women. Just as someone straight has no attraction to the same sex. So someone who is and can have sex with both is fluid and bi. There are no grey areas here. Someone's personality would never be enough to change my sexual identity.

[Tazirai]

I think if thats the case then she should have never gotten involved in a sexual relationship with Cluster. It wasnt a one time thing she did bc she was confused and experimenting. She was having sex with a woman and presumably liked it. You dont do that unless theres some level of sexual attraction. I did not like it either but it happened and cant simply be ignored and dismissed

I agree with everything you said. My argument isn't that Psylocke shouldn't be seen as gay or bi-sexual. But the fact that she only had ONE on page relationship with a woman who was actually her boyfriend muddies the waters, especially when someone like Humphries wrote it not to promote a healthy relationship, but for shits, giggles, and shock value makes majority of fans suspect it to be a false thing placed on her by people who want her to be gay or bi-sexual.

Like I said I have no issues with it either way. I have issues with comics lacking the proper etiquette to do things to promote healthy character growth.

She had sex with a female and is fluid or bisexual. Not even Marvel has the authority to overpower sexual identities. She is bisexual. Whether you like it or not. Facts are facts.

That's nice, there a lots of terrible ideas floating around here lately.....

MARVEL created her. MARVEL determines what she is at any given point. MARVEL determines what her sexuality is. MARVEL determines her powers, abilities and relationships. WE can say whatever we want. I as a straight man, write a fan fictional bi-sexual Psylocke with healthy relationships. Psy as a gay man cannot determine whether Psylocke is truly gay or bi or not, he can want it that way, that doesn't make it that way.

HUMPHRIES tried ot retcon Psylocke gaining her abilities as a Teenager and her Brother as an established Superhero. MARVEL said naw dog.
Humphries hasn't written her since.

Cluster was one of Fantomex's 3 brains, each with their own personality and identity. That's why she was given a female body once she was separated from the other two, that has always been her gender. Cluster's personality was the one that Betsy fell for.
It's more like Betsy being in a relationship with someone who has transitioned and continuing that relationship. Does that necessarily make Betsy bi? At the very least she seems open to the possibility

One or my co-workers was in a heterosexual relationship with his girlfriend and eventually had full conversion surgery and she stayed with him, now her. Because she was in love with the person, not the sexual organs. So yep I see where you're coming from.

[Psy]

I agree with everything you said. My argument isn't that Psylocke shouldn't be seen as gay or bi-sexual. But the fact that she only had ONE on page relationship with a woman who was actually her boyfriend muddies the waters, especially when someone like Humphries wrote it not to promote a healthy relationship, but for shits, giggles, and shock value makes majority of fans suspect it to be a false thing placed on her by people who want her to be gay or bi-sexual.

Like I said I have no issues with it either way. I have issues with comics lacking the proper etiquette to do things to promote healthy character growth.



MARVEL created her. MARVEL determines what she is at any given point. MARVEL determines what her sexuality is. MARVEL determines her powers, abilities and relationships. WE can say whatever we want. I as a straight man, write a fan fictional bi-sexual Psylocke with healthy relationships. Psy as a gay man cannot determine whether Psylocke is truly gay or bi or not, he can want it that way, that doesn't make it that way.

HUMPHRIES tried ot retcon Psylocke gaining her abilities as a Teenager and her Brother as an established Superhero. MARVEL said naw dog.
Humphries hasn't written her since.



One or my co-workers was in a heterosexual relationship with his girlfriend and eventually had full conversion surgery and she stayed with him, now her. Because she was in love with the person, not the sexual organs. So yep I see where you're coming from.

Marvel does not get to decide how sexual orientation works. Neither do you. This has really devolved into something beneath me.

She is fluid or bisexual. If you think otherwise that is 100% offensive to any LGBTQ person. It's not a choice. You cannot choose to be bi or gay or straight and then go back. Its perpetuating a false ignorance that we have fought for many decades and obviously continue to fight.... shame.

[Tazirai]

Marvel does not get to decide how sexual orientation works. Neither do you. This has really devolved into something beneath me.

She is fluid or bisexual. If you think otherwise that is 100% offensive to any LGBTQ person. It's not a choice. You cannot choose to be bi or gay or straight and then go back. Its perpetuating a false ignorance that we have fought for many decades and obviously continue to fight.... shame.

We can agree to disagree. I'm out of this particular discussion on a fictional character I didn't create, bu tlove regardless, even though I still hate her thong lol. Yte I draw some of my characters in thongs... go figure.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Marvel gets to decided how their characters work, so if they want a character to be straight they'll be straight, bi will be bi regardless of what we think. Humphries wrote all of that simply to have it like when Jubilee was turned into a vampire, vampires were hot at that time so Marvel wanted to make more money, just like DC did when they had that gay Green Lantern that was ended as soon as the press moved on to other things...and Cluster was not an entirely new and different character, it was basically Fantomex in a female body...so it's not a simple bit of sexual orientation...so as far as I'd be concerned she's straight unless Warren is going to die and come back in a woman's body...

[Infernal-Ginger]

the Cluster/Fantomax "fling" just made her even more complicated ....time to move on from that

[CGAR]

I feel like some of you over complicate things...just saying

[Beetle]

Of course it does. Sexual identity is very specific. As I have pointed out. I am a gay man. If my partner decides to be female we are seeing a divorce lawyer. I am full blown gay. No attraction to women. Just as someone straight has no attraction to the same sex. So someone who is and can have sex with both is fluid and bi. There are no grey areas here. Someone's personality would never be enough to change my sexual identity.

I personally think that she is queer. But real life is messy and people are complicated, and in real life you can't dictate someone else's sexuality for them, it's a personal decision. Betsy isn't real, but not even her writers have labelled her. Betsy might not label herself as bisexual, she could choose to identify as straight with a single exception. Or maybe pansexual (which might make sense for a telepath, there's a reason the "Ultimate Intimacy" was such a meme on these boards)

Marvel gets to decided how their characters work, so if they want a character to be straight they'll be straight, bi will be bi regardless of what we think. Humphries wrote all of that simply to have it like when Jubilee was turned into a vampire, vampires were hot at that time so Marvel wanted to make more money, just like DC did when they had that gay Green Lantern that was ended as soon as the press moved on to other things...and Cluster was not an entirely new and different character, it was basically Fantomex in a female body...so it's not a simple bit of sexual orientation...so as far as I'd be concerned she's straight unless Warren is going to die and come back in a woman's body...

Cluster had always been female. She just didn't get the chance to present herself that way to the world until she was given a new body.

[Shadowcat]

Woof. That was a slog. I’m fine with either sexuality. I just wish there were stories of her modeling days, and buelemia, and drug abuse.

[Izanami]

Marvel gets to decided how their characters work, so if they want a character to be straight they'll be straight, bi will be bi regardless of what we think. Humphries wrote all of that simply to have it like when Jubilee was turned into a vampire, vampires were hot at that time so Marvel wanted to make more money, just like DC did when they had that gay Green Lantern that was ended as soon as the press moved on to other things...and Cluster was not an entirely new and different character, it was basically Fantomex in a female body...so it's not a simple bit of sexual orientation...so as far as I'd be concerned she's straight unless Warren is going to die and come back in a woman's body...

This is the funniest comment I have read.
Claims that Marvel gets to decide how their characters work.
Marvel approves Humphries is the Cluster fiasco and allowed it to be published. However does not count it because its not based on their OTP despite claiming that Marvel is the authority. The lengths you go to explain your logic despite all evidence to the contrary is astonishing. It's like watching someone shoot their own foot and then claim it didn't happen bleeding in front of them.

[Psy]

Marvel gets to decided how their characters work, so if they want a character to be straight they'll be straight, bi will be bi regardless of what we think. Humphries wrote all of that simply to have it like when Jubilee was turned into a vampire, vampires were hot at that time so Marvel wanted to make more money, just like DC did when they had that gay Green Lantern that was ended as soon as the press moved on to other things...and Cluster was not an entirely new and different character, it was basically Fantomex in a female body...so it's not a simple bit of sexual orientation...so as far as I'd be concerned she's straight unless Warren is going to die and come back in a woman's body...

First of all, no. This is completely ignorant and not how the world works. If a person, regardless if real or not, is able to have sex with someone of the same sex. They are least bisexual. There is absolutely no side stepping this with the lame excuse Marvel gets to decide. Sorry, once things have happened they are even out of the creators control. A person who is not attracted to the same sex cannot, under any circumstances, have sex with them consensually. That's how it works. These are facts. This is not a line marvel can back pedal on. Unless that part of her life was completely erased. She is at minimum bisexual and nothing you say or try to delude yourself into believing changes that.

Also, Warren has nothing to do with her sexuality at all. That was a vapid attempt at any reasonable debate.

[gifted]

You know how I see it? The same way I see reality -- all individuals' sexualities are unknown or assumed based on experiences. Unless a character canonically says in a published comic what their sexuality is (i.e. "I am a homosexual woman"), then I assume their sexuality is fluid. For example, the Human Torch may have dated women his entire existence, but if he never said, "I am straight and only attracted to women," then I would not mind whatsoever if he is suddenly sexually attracted to a man.

But even then, just like real people -- people lie or they haven't accepted their own sexuality yet. Things CAN change. Betsy may have believed herself to be straight and attracted to only men, but the fact that she slept with a woman means that she can be anything but heterosexual.

People need to STOP assuming everyone is straight because society can not and should not see that as the norm. There shouldn't even be a norm. If I have to tell people I'm gay, then the straight man should also have to tell people that he's straight.

So, unless Betsy ever stated on page that she's heterosexual, then she is whatever sexuality we can assume based off of evidence. And she had sex with a woman, no matter the circumstances, so at this point, I have every right to assume that she is bisexual. It does not matter if fans don't like the writer, their stories, or how they told their stories-- it was published, thus it is canon.

I won't let bitter fans try to erase the LGBT community from literature. Again, no matter how terribly written stories may be (Bendis' handling of teen Iceman), it's still canon. People cannot say, "Marvel made Iceman gay," because Iceman's sexuality has never been stated as heterosexual. You can say, "Marvel revealed Iceman as gay, " but saying Marvel made him gay? That's a joke. I'm gonna go around and start saying shit like, "Marvel made Kamala Khan straight. That's blasphemous," the moment she gets into a relationship with a male character.