Grant Morrison's new X-Men - When did it start to decline?

[Carabas]

What were the main complaints about Planet X? (Besides Jean's death)

I think it's mostly that X-Men fans can't handle Marvel's best villain acting like a proper villain.

[DDD]

Planet X was the worst and too much Fantomex (ie King Mob/ Grant Morrison self inserting himself into his own stories)

Overall, it was always strong writing. I think Morrison is simply skillful or he is a strong writer. But it was not memorable. I've never been able to read any of his series from start to finish. Invisibles starts out very strong, then it becomes a total mess halfway through also with some half baked ending. Doom Patrol was the same. It becomes kind of like sitting through a bad Sarah MacLachlan record (they all are) just because you like her pretty voice.

Having said that, I would still read it if he returned. :)

[yogaflame]

Planet X was the worst and too much Fantomex (ie King Mob/ Grant Morrison self inserting himself into his own stories)

Overall, it was always strong writing. I think Morrison is simply skillful or he is a strong writer. But it was not memorable. I've never been able to read any of his series from start to finish. Invisibles starts out very strong, then it becomes a total mess halfway through also with some half baked ending. Doom Patrol was the same.

Having said that, I would still read it if he returned.

Even his toilet paper is more interesting than what the vast majority of 'writers' can produce.

[DDD]

Having read a few comments, I'd even argue it started to decline with his first issue. Millions of mutants die at the hand of a mutant, so Magneto fakes his death, fakes a whole prison cell so he can fake being Xorn which means hiring actors, etc. Not to save his own nation... no... to stick it to Charles Xavier. You just have to go with all of Grant's jumps in logic and not ask too many questions.

Also he could not cure his legs in Genosha, but one Sentinel bomb later and he can build nanomachines to cure leg paralysis. n__u It likely goes great with a James Bond movie.

[Carabas]

Planet X was the worst and too much Fantomex (ie King Mob/ Grant Morrison self inserting himself into his own stories)

You have claimed so in the past, and Morrison certainly has used self-insertion in other stories, but I just don't see it here. If anybody, it's Scott Summers who is the Morrison stand-in in New X-Men, if anybody is.

Fantomex is a palette-swapped affectionate parody of Diabolik, master thief from Italian comics, down to the 'assistant' cammed Eva. Which is something that has a long history in X-Men comics. What are the Brood if not Aliens with the serial numbers filed off?

[manymade1]

Planet X was the worst and too much Fantomex (ie King Mob/ Grant Morrison self inserting himself into his own stories)

Overall, it was always strong writing. I think Morrison is simply skillful or he is a strong writer. But it was not memorable. I've never been able to read any of his series from start to finish. Invisibles starts out very strong, then it becomes a total mess halfway through also with some half baked ending. Doom Patrol was the same. It becomes kind of like sitting through a bad Sarah MacLachlan record (they all are) just because you like her pretty voice.

Having said that, I would still read it if he returned.

That's the first time I've ever heard that. Perhaps I'm biased because this run is a favorite of mine but I always figured even those that hated the run would at least acknowledge the significance of it.

[Kisinith]

From its inception. Morrison's run had brilliant ideas but suffered fro two key problems.
1st) He wrote just about everybody extraordinarily out of character in order to make his story work.
2nd) He broke all of the toys in the Toy box when he was done.

If this were an out of continuity story, the last X-Men story with those characters (the ooc is still a problem but more manageable), or used completely new characters it'd be a great run, one of the best. But, the fact that it is supposed to fit within a greater narrative (the MU) and the characters need to be usable after he's done really turns his work into something much less. The fact that just about everything in his run had to be retconned, almost immediately in some cases, display just how bad it is.

[Marvelboy1974]

It started with Xorneto and the death of Jean. Jean could have become a cosmic being, divorced Scott so he can be with Emma, and gone off on some of her space adventures and grow on her own.

[Carabas]

Jean could have become a cosmic being, divorced Scott so he can be with Emma, and gone off on some of her space adventures and grow on her own.

That is almost literally what happened. It's not Morrison's fault nobody wanted to write about Jean and the Phoenix Corps.

2nd) He broke all of the toys in the Toy box when he was done.

I strongly disagree. He in fact was very careful not to break anything.

If you're looking for a writer that broke X-toys look no further than Bendis with House Of Meh.

[LocoSteve]

After the conclusion of "Murder at the Mansion" arc.

[t hedge coke]

Magneto does his crazy eyes for a few moments, in Planet X, for which I'll forever be grateful. Real Magneto has crazy pop eyes.

Having read a few comments, I'd even argue it started to decline with his first issue. Millions of mutants die at the hand of a mutant, so Magneto fakes his death, fakes a whole prison cell so he can fake being Xorn which means hiring actors, etc. Not to save his own nation... no... to stick it to Charles Xavier. You just have to go with all of Grant's jumps in logic and not ask too many questions.

Also he could not cure his legs in Genosha, but one Sentinel bomb later and he can build nanomachines to cure leg paralysis. n__u It likely goes great with a James Bond movie.

Thaaaat's not what happened, though. A mutant did not kill everyone in Genosha. Two Sentinels and a psychic monster did, in conjunction with Magneto, who gave them up, willingly or unwillingly, to encourage the big ol' mutant/human race war. No one hired actors. There's one mutant, who makes clones of himself, and the X-Men can't tell the difference between one Chinese worker and another at a glance (until they do). Subtle racism in the X? Yep. But not a legion of "actors" "hired," just one faithful mutant in Magneto's gang of faithful evil mutants.

Sticking it to Charles was just an added bonus. Who wouldn't want to stick it to Chuck?

(That fake diary is the meanest thing ever. Deliciously so.)

I think it's mostly that X-Men fans can't handle Marvel's best villain acting like a proper villain.

The fans who seem the angriest about it do seem to have misunderstood some things, for that matter.

Magneto didn't destroy all of New York, nor was it weird that the other superheroes were run off "somewhere else," considering Avengers did the "other heroes are elsewhere" for the Kang story at roughly the same time and Patsy Walker just got a number of superheroes together at random by calling emergency when it was just about burgers or something. Magneto only trashed one neighborhood and the Statue of Liberty. Jimenez draws the neighborhood from different angles, but always the same buildings, same storefronts, because it's Mutant Town.

And, the storyline right before Morrison, was Wolverine killing/trying to kill Magneto, because Magneto was being a villain. "Not a mass-murdery, conquery ass" Magneto only lasted like two or three years of Claremont, fifteen years before NXM. He'd been a killy, take-overy bastard, even under Claremont (inasmuch as Claremont minorly co-wrote Alan Davis' big Magneto story), since then.

Plus, he's high on the bad drugs, and being mentally manipulated and pressured into it by his legacy and his faithful. Two things that happen to Magneto often, even under Claremont: Magneto caving to/indulging his genocidal faithful, and Magneto overpowering himself artificially and getting beyond himself because of it.

Saint Magneto never existed anywhere but in false memories and on t-shirts. But, had he been "real," and had he "destroyed"/killed all of New York City, and ruled it for months, and not been under the control of others, and never been a genocidal, conquery supervillain before... I could see being bothered by his actions.

And, then there are people who just wanted Xorn to be true. Or, more true than he was. Superhero fans can have the hardest time with someone lying.

He in fact was very careful not to break anything..

Magneto is exactly where was when Magneto came on, except in a different city. The only characters he killed were either his creations or characters with a history of dying and coming back, the ressurectables. No one was left in an unusable position. They couldn't be, really, since Morrison had another year of comics planned out when he quit and wrapped up with Here Comes Tomorrow. If they were in unusable positions or broken and ruined, how could he have continued with them?

[BLACKINKARUS]

I'm obviously part of the minority, because I absolutely hated Morrison's run, both the writing, and the art. What made it even worse, was that his run aped the look and feel of the Fox-Men film, which I also hated. The only arc that I actually liked, was Assault on Weapon Plus, which is the arc that many Morrison fans hated, but I liked it, if nothing else, because I loved Chris Bachalo's art. I own all the issues of Morrison's New X-Men run, but only because I never bothered to tell the comic shop to take it off my pull list.

[Wiccan]

That is almost literally what happened. It's not Morrison's fault nobody wanted to write about Jean and the Phoenix Corps.

That future didn't really happened, so Jean stayed dead, and that's how Marvel treated her ever since. Specially since she's a character who died a lot, I guess they wanted to stick to make deaths a little less underestimated.

[t hedge coke]

That future didn't really happened, so Jean stayed dead, and that's how Marvel treated her ever since. Specially since she's a character who died a lot, I guess they wanted to stick to make deaths a little less underestimated.

Jean had come back before, more than once. She was resurrected the issue after she died, even then. Marvel could bring her back any issue they wanted. I mean, they brought back Magneto what, half a year later?

And, there were pitches to resurrect her, post-Morrison, so it's not on the talent, it wasn't for lack of writers or artists wanting to work on Jean or bring her back.

In any case, while Here Comes Tomorrow's future was prevented, Jean being Phoenix and the "Phoenix Corps" would still exist. That wasn't a result of that future and Emma and Scott not hooking up.

[ZNOP]

That is almost literally what happened. It's not Morrison's fault nobody wanted to write about Jean and the Phoenix Corps.

I strongly disagree. He in fact was very careful not to break anything.

If you're looking for a writer that broke X-toys look no further than Bendis with House Of Meh.

No one wanted to write about Jean and the Phoenix Corps because the entire concept was a embarrassing crock.