Grant Morrison's new X-Men - When did it start to decline?

[ExodusCloak]

You know given Claremont's fetishes, it's hard not to see this as him having his cane and eating it too.

It wasn't Claremont who wrote that. It was Ann Nocenti.

[manymade1]

Just curious, to all the Morrison X-Men haters, how would you compare his run to Whedon's?

[ZNOP]

As far as I know Whedon's run didn't go full tilt and blatantly contradict established continuity and/or inject inexplicable "BS" into the X-mythos unlike Morrison's run.

[BLACKINKARUS]

Just curious, to all the Morrison X-Men haters, how would you compare his run to Whedon's?

To me, both Morrison's run and Whedon's run come off as alternate versions of the original titles. Their runs are so significantly different from the rest of X-Men continuity as a whole, that neither of them seem to fit, which is obviously why so many fans love their runs so much. I love new and fresh ideas as much as the next person, but their runs were too much of a departure from the X-Men I love.

[NewMutant]

To me, both Morrison's run and Whedon's run come off as alternate versions of the original titles. Their runs are so significantly different from the rest of X-Men continuity as a whole, that neither of them seem to fit, which is obviously why so many fans love their runs so much. I love new and fresh ideas as much as the next person, but their runs were too much of a departure from the X-Men I love.

Felt in run to me. Morrison felt like a rebirth, similar to Adjectiveless X-Men #1 in the 90s. Whedon felt like a continuation of that but reverting back more to the standard X-Men norms.

[t hedge coke]

Storm has worn less than Morrison's New X-Men Emma.

Claremont got Emma and Storm into each other's body and in their underwear.

Teenage girls ran around in panties or flashed their undies at the reader more times in Claremont-era X-comics than Emma could possibly show anything during Morrison's run. (For that matter, Bendis' run has had unnecessary upskirts on teenage girls. Morrison's run may be the only substantial X-run that didn't have them, since the 70s.) Kitty. Dani. That Kitty/Mojo special shows us Kitty's underwear in more panels than it does her powers being used. Occasionally, it's a swimsuit, instead, and we just have a grown man's evil "side" giving them orgasms by the poolside.

Most of us probably had this slide by as naturalistic, because we were young, ourselves, when we first read them, but they are comics by grown adults.

[t hedge coke]

Felt in run to me. Morrison felt like a rebirth, similar to Adjectiveless X-Men #1 in the 90s. Whedon felt like a continuation of that but reverting back more to the standard X-Men norms.

Pretty much. There were some cool "classic" moments and some nice issues explored, but... Kitty/Pete was straight up nostalgia, even if it makes the fact his little sister, her soul-mate, made her phase out of bed before he could a little funnier.

[Bruce5]

I don't think the series declined for me but I was not too happy about magneto killing 5 million people in new York. Grant was clearly not a fan of the scott and jean romance's so that may have angered some fans there by leading to the hate for him. it did feel OOC for scott to have an affair with emma because not just seemed but he did love jean so much.

[t hedge coke]

I don't think the series declined for me but I was not too happy about magneto killing 5 million people in new York. Grant was clearly not a fan of the scott and jean romance's so that may have angered some fans there by leading to the hate for him. it did feel OOC for scott to have an affair with emma because not just seemed but he did love jean so much.

Waaaah? That is - seriously - not in his comics.

And, how is he not a fan of their romance? He broke them up because it's a soap opera comic and they'd become too much of a perfunctory couple for drama, but he gave them a ton of love. And, the entire run, practically, is about Jean and the Phoenix. She has some beautiful, awesome hero moments the whole way through and everyone loves her.

[ExodusCloak]

Yeah it was 5000 and I don't think the number was in Morrisons run. It was Claremonts.

[t hedge coke]

Yeah it was 5000 and I don't think the number was in Morrisons run. It was Claremonts.

That's on Claremont, then. Because we literally don't see that in a comic Morrison wrote, though we do see him kill five pilots, and march at least a few dozen people to his special ovens. Also, five thousand is way less than five million. Way way way substantially less.

Magneto probably killed more than that during Fatal Attractions.

sidenote: I need to read that run again. Such an odd comic. Magneto's back. Chuck is angry. Then Magneto is philosophical. Xavier sort of forgives him everything. But... and then stuff.

[ExodusCloak]

That's on Claremont, then. Because we literally don't see that in a comic Morrison wrote, though we do see him kill five pilots, and march at least a few dozen people to his special ovens. Also, five thousand is way less than five million. Way way way substantially less.

Magneto probably killed more than that during Fatal Attractions.

Oh I agree the death count gets vastly exaggerated.

I'd say this is the panel where everyone dies.

[t hedge coke]

I can buy five thousand. It seems high, but I can buy it.

I was just rereading an X-Factor issue, the other day, where Strong Guy helps break up the Washington Monument, and thinking about just how much damage and death happened in X-comics back when, and we didn't blink as hard. Now, it's all... "Wait! They destroyed a landmark and the villain murdered people!?!"

Morrison likes making villains, particularly classic murder-conquer villains, vilified again. I can, sort of, understand how that bothers some fans, who want them to have never been that bad, or to have moved away from it, but Magneto (or Talia, Joker, Metallo) were not really grand human beings even just before Morrison wrote them, much less traditionally. At best, they had phases where they hurt less people quite so badly.

He doesn't do it to everyone, though. We saw a number of "evil" mutants who were working peaceably during the run, who had stopped being supervillains.

All the cops and firefighters in that shot remind me how much I would've liked Foster to stay with the X-Men awhile after Morrison left. It was never going to happen, but that was a beautiful lineup that took on Magneto, with normal humans, non-mutant superpowers, and mutants, young and old, classic characters and new. Integrated.

[Wiccan]

And, the entire run, practically, is about Jean and the Phoenix. She has some beautiful, awesome hero moments the whole way through and everyone loves her.

Why you say that like it was a bad thing? But I seriously doubt he was a fan of Jean and Scott relationship.

[t hedge coke]

Why you say that like it was a bad thing? But I seriously doubt he was a fan of Jean and Scott relationship.

I love Jean. Everyone loves Jean.

He's talked before about both being bored with what they'd become and how hard, as an old school x-fan, it was to commit to doing proper soap opera and breaking them up. So, a fan of it as it was at one point, anyway.

It's funny how little, in one sense, New X-Men actually changed. Jean was dead, again. Cyclops cheated, again. Emma was an X-Man, again. Beast transformed, again. Magneto came back to the life and died, again. Wolverine gained a bunch of knowledge about his past that could very easily be false, again. Xavier got to walk, then lost the ability, again. The Shiar Empire was in awkward chaos, again. Darkstar was dead, again. The Mansion would need rebuilding, again.