Secret Wars #1 Review (SPOILERS)

[Biclopcicle]

I forgot about the Thorr hammer lying there. I'm going to have to go back and reconcile that with why 4 issues after NA #29, in NA#33, Doom and Beyonders are there again, yet Thor and Hyperian confront the Beyonders in NA #32.

Edit. The Thorr hammer does indeed appear in NA#33, so this puts the linear timeline correct for Thor/Hyperian confronting Beyonders before Doom/Molecule Man confront Beyonders. So why does the Multiverse suddenly shrink down to 22 universes in NA#29?

Because NA 31, 32, and 33 are basically flashbacks.

Sequence:
1) Multiversal Avengers meet up with Strange. They split paths, one going to find Rabum Alal, the others to the Ivory Kings. (NA 27)
2) the multiversal avengers find and confront the Ivory Kings (NA 32) while strange finds Doom (NA 31)
3) Doom and Strange confront the Beyonders (NA 33)
4) the multiverse collapses down to 22 universes (this must have happened BEFORE the Illuminati plan to confront Rogers and SHIELD avengers, because Reed specifically says that the Multiversal collapse was a catalyst to their recent actions- so I will place this somewhere around the actual BEGINNING of TRO)

Edit: Obviously the multiversal avengers going through the augur had to happen first. But the cat-and-mouse game between Rogers and the Illuminati was changed by the collapse (getting Sue Storm involved, luring Steve to Cadiz to settle their differences, etc)

[jackolover]

Here's a bit of conjecture. When Doom/MM/Dr Strange encounter Beyonders in NNA #33, they are transported into white space to end back in NA#29 in White space and go in the doorway to Battleworld ? We never see Doom again until Strange visits him as Rabum Alal in NA #31. Otherwise Doom/MM in NA#29 makes no sense.

And it looks like the shrinkage of the Multiverse in NA #29 to 22 universes, may have been due to the Living Tribunal being killed, as Reed and T'Challa suggested that is the case.

[Biclopcicle]

Here's a bit of conjecture. When Doom/MM/Dr Strange encounter Beyonders in NNA #33, they are transported into white space to end back in NA#29 in White space and go in the doorway to Battleworld ? We never see Doom again until Strange visits him as Rabum Alal in NA #31. Otherwise Doom/MM in NA#29 makes no sense.

And it looks like the shrinkage of the Multiverse in NA #29 to 22 universes, may have been due to the Living Tribunal being killed, as Reed and T'Challa suggested that is the case.

I disagree. The collapse most likely happened when Doom threw the giant cube at the Beyonders. The Doom you see in NA 31 and 33 who is traveling with MM and Strange is an older Doom who had already gone back in time to thwart the Beyonders. The Doom in NA 29 is the younger Doom who had not yet become Rabum Alal

[exiled]

Yes. His speech to Kang, Iron Lad, and Immortus seems to contradict all his future actions. Well, he wasn't a crotchety old man yet either.

He lost his youth was retired and lost his son. He came out of retirement to deal with the Illuminati. He was shown to be retired in the new cap book. He was also told by the universe there is no hope and that Tony knew and lied. And before anyone says anything about Tony knowing Valeria knew also.

[Biclopcicle]

He lost his youth was retired and lost his son. He came out of retirement to deal with the Illuminati. He was shown to be retired in the new cap book. He was also told by the universe there is no hope and that Tony knew and lied. And before anyone says anything about Tony knowing Valeria knew also.

I'm not saying he didn't have motive, I'm saying that his primary directive as Steve Rogers should have overridden that. He is always presented as the incorruptible paragon of virtue. He is the most static major character in the marvel universe that I can think of. I mean, I enjoyed how Hickman wrote him. I just thought it made cap come off as a hypocrite.

Also, he was hunting the Illuminati before the super soldier serum was removed

[Darth Kal-el]

Why? Because Captain America should always prioritize saving people over revenge. Period, end of story.

When he went after Stark he had done all he thought he needed to do. Helped stop the Shiar and got the lift raft going. He then went for Stark, probably half out of revenge and half keeping him from messing everything up but Steve did no know about the UU invasion

[Biclopcicle]

When he went after Stark he had done all he thought he needed to do. Helped stop the Shiar and got the lift raft going. He then went for Stark, probably half out of revenge and half keeping him from messing everything up but Steve did no know about the UU invasion

Yes, after he chased the Illuminati for eight months. I know that there are some contradictions because he supposedly helped tony during Axis (didn't read that one) but in general, we are led to believe that he was making things diffulicult for the Illuminati for eight months

Edit: at the end of the Time gem saga, Cap does say "they're planning to destroy worlds. They may already have." So on that front, he is being consistent with saving lives. But when the Cabal took over the antimatter bombs, he should have tried to reconcile with the Illuminati. He didn't.

[Darth Kal-el]

Yes, after he chased the Illuminati for eight months. I know that there are some contradictions because he supposedly helped tony during Axis (didn't read that one) but in general, we are led to believe that he was making things diffulicult for the Illuminati for eight months

Because they wouldn't turn themselves in and work with everyone

[Biclopcicle]

Because they wouldn't turn themselves in and work with everyone

Cap didn't want to work with them. He wanted to take them down. See my edited post. I agree with cap initially, but the cabal situation made his stance petty

[Biclopcicle]

Plus Cap's plan was dumb. "Take down" the Illuminati and then what? Try them in a court of law? The only evidence that anyone had regarding the incursions was possessed by the Cabal and the Illuminati. Doubt they would just let cap throw them in jail for blowing up the Great Society. Besides Namor and possibly Strange are really the only two prime culpable parties. Obviously you could argue that the rest were accessories for creating the antimatter bombs

[exiled]

I'm not saying he didn't have motive, I'm saying that his primary directive as Steve Rogers should have overridden that. He is always presented as the incorruptible paragon of virtue. He is the most static major character in the marvel universe that I can think of. I mean, I enjoyed how Hickman wrote him. I just thought it made cap come off as a hypocrite.

Also, he was hunting the Illuminati before the super soldier serum was removed

I agree with you. Cap was a hypocrite. But he has never truly faced anything like this. And the Illuminati was not innocent. They stole starks files for weapons and tried to steal the anti matter bombs from the cabal. They did this because every other option failed. The only reason they didn't use the weapon's was because of the destruction of all universes besides the 2 dozen. After that they built a trap so cap would work with them.

[jackolover]

Because NA 31, 32, and 33 are basically flashbacks.

Sequence:
1) Multiversal Avengers meet up with Strange. They split paths, one going to find Rabum Alal, the others to the Ivory Kings. (NA 27)
2) the multiversal avengers find and confront the Ivory Kings (NA 32) while strange finds Doom (NA 31)
3) Doom and Strange confront the Beyonders (NA 33)
4) the multiverse collapses down to 22 universes (this must have happened BEFORE the Illuminati plan to confront Rogers and SHIELD avengers, because Reed specifically says that the Multiversal collapse was a catalyst to their recent actions- so I will place this somewhere around the actual BEGINNING of TRO)

Edit: Obviously the multiversal avengers going through the augur had to happen first. But the cat-and-mouse game between Rogers and the Illuminati was changed by the collapse (getting Sue Storm involved, luring Steve to Cadiz to settle their differences, etc)

It's possible, though I still think Reed and BP think the shrinkage is because Pym tells them the LT dies in every Universe.

What do you think happened with Doom/MM in NA #29? That sequence seems to not match up with anything. How do you know Doom is the younger and not the older in that issue?

[exiled]

Plus Cap's plan was dumb. "Take down" the Illuminati and then what? Try them in a court of law? The only evidence that anyone had regarding the incursions was possessed by the Cabal and the Illuminati. Doubt they would just let cap throw them in jail for blowing up the Great Society. Besides Namor and possibly Strange are really the only two prime culpable parties. Obviously you could argue that the rest were accessories for creating the antimatter bombs

We have to assume Cap was given the ok by the powers to be to arrest them. I think the big issue with the UN is that they didn't tell anyone about the incursions. Cap had no backup plan. He knew he was doomed no matter what. Captain Universe told him that. His motives were just to stop the Illuminati and the Cabal from destroying world's until the end. He was also told by Franklin Richards that everything dies. Cap is not stupid. If he can't stop the ultimate destruction of the universe he will do what he can to save as many lives as he can before that.

[Biclopcicle]

It's possible, though I still think Reed and BP think the shrinkage is because Pym tells them the LT dies in every Universe.

What do you think happened with Doom/MM in NA #29? That sequence seems to not match up with anything. How do you know Doom is the younger and not the older in that issue?

Because of what happens in the first half of NA 33. Its a flashback of Doom and MM going back in time.

[Biclopcicle]

We have to assume Cap was given the ok by the powers to be to arrest them. I think the big issue with the UN is that they didn't tell anyone about the incursions. Cap had no backup plan. He knew he was doomed no matter what. Captain Universe told him that. His motives were just to stop the Illuminati and the Cabal from destroying world's until the end. He was also told by Franklin Richards that everything dies. Cap is not stupid. If he can't stop the ultimate destruction of the universe he will do what he can to save as many lives as he can before that.

My point was that his justice could not be served. Yes he could imprison them...but no one could prove they had been guilty of wrongdoing. Furthermore, it is unlikely he got "permission" to take them down, since the UN "allowed" the Cabal to function. And the Cabal were way more guilty than they were. Yes he was hogtied by the UN...whatever. If he's going after greatest moral good he would've struck out on his own. I suppose he was limited by resources, however.

Also, the whole world knew about the incursions. Terrax's speech was broadcast far and wide. Interesting you bring up Franklin, because his existence in the future demonstrated that even though "everything dies" it wouldn't be a permanent situation. Franklin wanted him to bury the hatchet with Tony et al for the sake of bad blood..."how will it feel killing your own brothers?" That is, since the outcome was a moot point, why not try and live out those days the best way possible? But Cap kept on his vendetta