Finished "Krypton Returns" and what the hell did I just read?

[Cipher]

I picked up the Krypton Returns hardcover recently and ... jeez. Since the discussion threads for these issues are long gone with the old forums, someone help me out here.

I actually enjoyed Lobdell's Earthbound Superman stories, and the H'El villains month issue was surprisingly fun and intriguing, so I have no idea why everything here was such a mess.

What the hell does Superman even do to H'El at the end? Freezes him in time? Neither the the dialogue nor (usually stellar) art makes this clear.

Was their goal just to stop H'El? What happened to all the other timelines? Since Krypton apparently still kind of-sort of exists at the end, could they just have subdued H'El to stop him from creating more timelines while still preventing Krypton's destruction? Was it, like, causing the temporal distortion just by existing? Why is this all so unclear?

Why is everyone so god damn glib about the idea that they're essentially killing all the Kryptonians who currently live under H'El's monarchy? Superman does try to find a way to skirt the destruction in the end, but ... see above.

If Krypton still kind-of sort-of exists, is Jor-El there facing arrest for needlessly sending his son away? And Zor-El? Yikes?

Does Superboy send Argo City out in to space? Is it still out there? Does it cause temporal distortions? If not, again, why couldn't they stop H'El while keeping Krypton in tact? (Or could they? Did they know they could?)

If everyone's there with the idea that they need to ensure the planet's destruction to save the universe (omniverse? universe? Also, is this their goal?), why does Superboy willingly save one city that was originally destroyed?

Why is this whole clone plot so god damn problematic holy sh*t? Why do none of the reviews from the time talk about this?

Ugh. On a less confused, more disappointed note, we don't even get a popcorn-style fight with H'El.

Guys. Help.

[manofsteel1979]

I can't help. It was pure steaming crap that has thankfully been ignored.

Pretty art...some cool ideas....but that's it.

It reminds me how far New 52 Superman has come in quality since then. Pretty remarkable all things considered.

[Cipher]

I think this may be the most needlessly baffling comic I've ever read. There's no reason I should be this unclear upon first read as to what the characters' goals are or their what their understanding of the situation is, especially with Faora taking a full page to explain their mission in video-game-esque exposition.

Also, can we talk about that clone plot? Jesus, that clone plot, going all the way back to Superboy #0. So, Kryptonians at one point created mass-produced clones to act as test subjects and do menial work, which ... fine; Krypton's history doesn't need to be squeaky clean. But rather than treat it as some sin of their past, or with any of the weight actual, you know, slavery, demands, instead we're told that when the clones start revolting its because of aberrant violent programming. Not because they hate being slaves, but because they're violent rage machines who actually want at one point to destroy the planet.

Then Kara goes back in time to confront them and it turns out they're just as bad as she's always been told. There's not even a redemption tale there. She makes friends with their leader only because she bests them in battle. She's still horribly prejudiced, and as far as the world of the story is concerned, she has a right to be. They even talk in broken English (or Kryptonian).

That's some imperialist rhetoric that would make Kipling blush. How the f*ck did that story come out in 2014 in a mainstream superhero comic, across multiple titles featuring different authors no less? It's terrible. I hate it.

[Blacksun]

get better than Lobdell is easy...

[Slaughter]

The clone plot is a horrible resurrection of a quite interesting concept from Byrne's Man of Steel origins and his World of Krypton series. The difference is that the clone question was treated interestingly there, while Lobdell's treatment of it is, uhhhh... horrible?

[confusiongrows]

Yeah this story is total pigswill. I could ignore the dodgy implications of the clone story if I could understand what was going on from moment to moment, but the plotting is so choppy and confusing I got rather lost. Lobdell's terrible dialogue doesn't help. I own every issue of this in floppy but haven't read it since it came out.

[DeathFalcon182]

I read it, didn't understand it or care for it. His run was really bad and put a lot of people off Superman.

[Cipher]

I read it, didn't understand it or care for it. His run was really bad and put a lot of people off Superman.

I actually think his run gets a bum rap. His non-crossover issues are fun, the initial H'El arc is mediocre; only this bit is truly terrible.

That said, I did answer one of my questions from my initial post; apparently Argo was always supposed to make it off Krypton, as shown in the Cyborg Superman Villains Month issue (and possibly other Super-family titles?). That said, it's still not clear in this story why it wouldn't have made it off without Superboy's help (it's definitely not a stable time loop), or why he would do it in the first place. Also a weird thing to not explain in-story.

Basically the whole thing is still a mess.

[Vinsanity]

I read it, didn't understand it or care for it. His run was really bad and put a lot of people off Superman.

I liked it....

When I read Krypton Returns, I thought Supes' mom was gonna hit on him. :|