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  1. #31
    Nostalgia Fanwanker Pharozonk's Avatar
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    Keeping track of continuity isn't impossible. Search the internet and you can find dozens of fanfic writers who can do it just fine and write original stories of their own.
    "In any time, there will always be a need for heroes." - the Time Trapper, Legion of Superheroes #61(1994)

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  2. #32
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharozonk View Post
    Keeping track of continuity isn't impossible. Search the internet and you can find dozens of fanfic writers who can do it just fine and write original stories of their own.
    They aren't under the same deadline and editorial pressures that the pros are.

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    They aren't under the same deadline and editorial pressures that the pros are.
    I don't believe that is any kind of excuse. You either know what you are writing for, or you do not. And it is part of the job to know what you are writing for.

    In the Jim Shooter era of Marvel Comics, the writers and artists were held to a standard with strong guiding leadership. And even Chris Claremont has come out stating he needed that sort of strong editorial guidance to stay on point. It resulted in very few gaffs on Marvel's part getting through.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin Kelley View Post
    I don't believe that is any kind of excuse. You either know what you are writing for, or you do not. And it is part of the job to know what you are writing for.

    In the Jim Shooter era of Marvel Comics, the writers and artists were held to a standard with strong guiding leadership. And even Chris Claremont has come out stating he needed that sort of strong editorial guidance to stay on point. It resulted in very few gaffs on Marvel's part getting through.
    And a bunch of good writers not wanting to work for Marvel.

  5. #35
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin Kelley View Post
    I don't believe that is any kind of excuse.
    It is if the company bosses themselves decide that continuity and history are of distant secondary consideration to a marketable story.

    I wouldn't want to be the DC staffer to tell Diane Nelson or Kevin Tsujihara that they can't go ahead with some story idea they're enthusiastic about because it doesn't jibe with decades-old continuity.

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharozonk View Post
    Keeping track of continuity isn't impossible. Search the internet and you can find dozens of fanfic writers who can do it just fine and write original stories of their own.
    It's just that the stories themselves aren't necessarily well-written stories. But by golly they've got the continuity right!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    It is if the company bosses themselves decide that continuity and history are of distant secondary consideration to a marketable story.

    I wouldn't want to be the DC staffer to tell Diane Nelson or Kevin Tsujihara that they can't go ahead with some story idea they're enthusiastic about because it doesn't jibe with decades-old continuity.

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    that is why comics publishing have to be done with comics people, separate from corporate

  8. #38
    BANNED colonyofcells's Avatar
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    Warner brothers should take the lead on the comic book business so they can catch up with disney. I agree with ditching more and more continuity until continuity disappears.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    And a bunch of good writers not wanting to work for Marvel.
    That beggers the question: If they could not handle a professional atmosphere, how good were they really?

    The overall product quality slip since Shooter was ousted from the company speaks for itself.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin Kelley View Post
    That beggers the question: If they could not handle a professional atmosphere, how good were they really?

    The overall product quality slip since Shooter was ousted from the company speaks for itself.
    The Shooter era was my favorite period of Marvel Comics myself, but in light of how the business works, it was innately unsustainable. It's a miracle it lasted as long as it did, because the root of its success was also the seed of its eventual self-destruction.

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  11. #41
    Nostalgia Fanwanker Pharozonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    It's just that the stories themselves aren't necessarily well-written stories. But by golly they've got the continuity right!
    It's not like the current pros at DC are doing much better.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    They aren't under the same deadline and editorial pressures that the pros are.

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    That's why editorial is the problem. We need someone like Jim Shooter or Mark Waid in charge of DC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    The Shooter era was my favorite period of Marvel Comics myself, but in light of how the business works, it was innately unsustainable. It's a miracle it lasted as long as it did, because the root of its success was also the seed of its eventual self-destruction.

    Bureid Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Those roots were planted when Bob Harras came into power in the 90's. He's the reason that variants and #1 issues became more important in selling books rather than good stories. He turned comics at Marvel into corporately shilled products rather than good works of art.

    Ironically, he's working at DC now and things aren't looking so bright there either.
    Last edited by Pharozonk; 05-10-2015 at 03:05 PM.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    The Shooter era was my favorite period of Marvel Comics myself, but in light of how the business works, it was innately unsustainable. It's a miracle it lasted as long as it did, because the root of its success was also the seed of its eventual self-destruction.
    The difference was that Shooter treated the whole environment as a business. Not a daycare center for writers and artists who couldn't get work anywhere else.

    None since approached the position of Editor In Chief with as much professionalism as he did.

    And anyone who can't handle a professional atmosphere doesn't belong in any kind of art business in the first place. I've faced my own set of taskmaster art directors in my college days. It's part of the basic atmosphere of the field.
    Last edited by Darrin Kelley; 05-10-2015 at 03:07 PM.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member Triple J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin Kelley View Post
    I don't believe that is any kind of excuse. You either know what you are writing for, or you do not. And it is part of the job to know what you are writing for.

    In the Jim Shooter era of Marvel Comics, the writers and artists were held to a standard with strong guiding leadership. And even Chris Claremont has come out stating he needed that sort of strong editorial guidance to stay on point. It resulted in very few gaffs on Marvel's part getting through.
    Are you suggesting that DC could have maintained one continuity for 75 years, without any reboots?

    Yeah, for a short period of time, it's possible - which is what DC and Marvel has been doing (although with new 52, there have been many irregularities). I am glad that they are switching to a more story based continuity, allowing each book to stand on its own.

    Even with strong leadership, it is impossible for a company like DC to maintain consistency for a long period of time (people change, attitudes change...the different eras of comics are a great example of this).

    Besides...if there were no changes, well many of the best stories of comics would never be told - since they don't fit the consistency or the tone of the books/characters when they were first introduced (of course, the exception is Elseworlds like titles).
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  15. #45
    Nostalgia Fanwanker Pharozonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeevanjacobjohn View Post
    Are you suggesting that DC could have maintained one continuity for 75 years, without any reboots?
    The existence of continuity doesn't need to be a hindrance. The problem is that comic fans have fed DC this notion that they want to read huge continuity shake up stories because they continue to purchase meaningless event comics. That's how you end up with terrible stories like Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis that only serve to mangle continuity further. We, as fans, needed to support more compressed, done-in-one storytelling that didn't rely on continuity shake ups to tell a good story. Smaller stories would have also served as easier entry points for new readers and wouldn't have led to this perception that comics continuity is a problem.
    "In any time, there will always be a need for heroes." - the Time Trapper, Legion of Superheroes #61(1994)

    "What can I say? I guess I outgrew maturity.." - Bob Chipman

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