Could the Flashpoint reboot have been avoided?

[BohemiaDrinker]

That's why editorial is the problem. We need someone like Jim Shooter or Mark Waid in charge of DC.

You'd have to pick one, though; I bet Shooter would be a very, very different EIC than Waid.

[Pharozonk]

You'd have to pick one, though; I bet Shooter would be a very, very different EIC than Shooter.

I doubt Shooter would be very different from himself.

Even though both of them employ different styles of editing, they both share the common trait of following continuity and making sure that writers under them do as well.

[Darrin Kelley]

Are you suggesting that DC could have maintained one continuity for 75 years, without any reboots?

Yes, I am. But it would have required actual effort at doing so. And the acknowledgement of the importance of Legacy heroes being a center point. Actually having them and letting their previous generations of heroes and villains age and grow old. Letting the torches be passed.

Superman for example, could have passed the mantle to whatever descendants he had. The same with Batman. And even Wonder Woman.

It's a fact of the business that properties eventually end up in the public domain. Allowing anyone to make use of them. It's an eventuality that every comic book company should be prepared for from the outset. This is why it is so important to continually develop new characters for new generations of readers.

DC has not been putting any truly serious effort into this since this ill-conceived reboot. They threw their sense of history and legacy away.

[colonyofcells]

Dc is probably planning to make tons of money on clark kent, bruce wayne and diana prince so they don't need any descendants. Both disney and warner brothers are probably busy donating to congress to prevent copyrights from expiring.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I doubt Shooter would be very different from himself.

Even though both of them employ different styles of editing, they both share the common trait of following continuity and making sure that writers under them do as well.

DAMN typo. I meant, obviously, Shooter and Waid,

[Darrin Kelley]

Dc is probably planning to make tons of money on clark kent, bruce wayne and diana prince so they don't need any descendants. Both disney and warner brothers are probably busy donating to congress to prevent copyrights from expiring.

Copyright is limited based on the lifespan of the subject's creator. Immortal orgnaizations like corporations have exactly no ownership rights when it comes to copyrights. That's the law.

And I am very thankful for that. Because if they could, American culture would be an absolute wasteland from no artistic creations ever going into the public domain.

[Xon-Ur]

From what I've read here and there over the years, this reboot was not even planned until higher ups (WB) ordered it to be done.

It was at that point that Flashpoint was re-written to reboot the entire DCU as opposed to the summer storyline it was originally planned to be.

It's also been revealed that a number of titles were planned with the teams used post-Flashpoint before there was ever talk of a reboot. Those titles are:

Justice League (Johns and Lee)
Batman (Snyder/Capullo)
Aquaman (Johns/Reis)
Green Lantern (was to remain unchanged)
Red Lanterns
Swamp Thing (Snyder)
The Flash (Johns)

If I remember correctly, there was also talk of Morrison taking over a Superman title after Grounded wrapped up. That could be a rumor, however.

At some point, an edict was issued that demanded a huge increase in sales in the publishing division, including a digital initiative. I've also read speculation (Bleeding Cool) that the WB's plans for Man of Steel and the legal battle over Superman were also part of the decision to do a full reboot.

I honestly think the titles listed above, along with new series and teams, a full exploitation of the Multiverse concept, digital release, and increased marketing and a plan similar to what Marvel did with Marvel Now! could have been more than enough to stave off a reboot.

[Darth Kal-el]

No Disney or Warner ip is going to the public domain anytime soon. Disney is king of keeping this from happening. How long has Walt Disney been gone. I am pretty sure Disney still and will continue beyond our lives to own Mickey Mouse

[Xon-Ur]

Also, consider that a number of events/titles pre-Flashpoint were not headed towards a reboot. Johns was building something up with his run on the Flash, Generation Lost was building to something as well, Johns and Lee were discussing JL, and Brightest Day had taken roughly a year to revamp Aquaman and a few other characters. Why do this if a reboot was something long in the works?

I think the editorial mayhem and continuity problems of the first year or so of the New 52 (made easier to swallow with the 5 years later conceit) are solid evidence that A) Flashpoint was never meant to be a Crisis event and B) someone somewhere (I still think it was the WB) mandated a full reboot as quickly as possible.

DiDio also revealed a few months back that the plan was to reboot after Infinite Crisis, but that the idea was pushed back. The fact that much was done to bring Barry Allen back (not long after Hal and Ollie had returned) leads me to believe the Johns/Lee planned title was going to involve the original Big 7. Why bring back all these Silver Age characters and concepts, rejuvenate them, and then toss it all away with a reboot?

[mr_crisp]

No Disney or Warner ip is going to the public domain anytime soon. Disney is king of keeping this from happening. How long has Walt Disney been gone. I am pretty sure Disney still and will continue beyond our lives to own Mickey Mouse

Disney should also do something with Mickey Mouse. When was that character last used in anything?

[colonyofcells]

Generous Disney cash makes sure mickey does not go to the public domain. Mickey seems to be used in tv in cartoons. The flashpoint reboot did seem abrupt but any reboot helps boost sales. Lots of people probably bought the new 52 comics to find out what happened to the characters after the reboot. Marvel is probably also expecting a boost in sales post secret wars from the panicking zombies.

[Triple J]

Yes, I am. But it would have required actual effort at doing so. And the acknowledgement of the importance of Legacy heroes being a center point. Actually having them and letting their previous generations of heroes and villains age and grow old. Letting the torches be passed.

Superman for example, could have passed the mantle to whatever descendants he had. The same with Batman. And even Wonder Woman.

It's a fact of the business that properties eventually end up in the public domain. Allowing anyone to make use of them. It's an eventuality that every comic book company should be prepared for from the outset. This is why it is so important to continually develop new characters for new generations of readers.

DC has not been putting any truly serious effort into this since this ill-conceived reboot. They threw their sense of history and legacy away.

Yeah..that could work, I suppose (It would be interesting to see how it would...given that the comic book audience isn't exactly receptive or welcoming of newer characters. Although that might have been different if both DC and Marvel were bringing in newer characters constantly).

Anyways, WB aren't going to let any of their properties go into public domain anytime soon.

That's another thing - there's no requirement of preserving history/legacy - sure they could, but it isn't required (if that's good or bad - I suppose that depends on who you ask. I don't particularly care for history or legacy; story matters to me most).

[superduperman]

From what I've read here and there over the years, this reboot was not even planned until higher ups (WB) ordered it to be done.

It was at that point that Flashpoint was re-written to reboot the entire DCU as opposed to the summer storyline it was originally planned to be.

It's also been revealed that a number of titles were planned with the teams used post-Flashpoint before there was ever talk of a reboot. Those titles are:

Justice League (Johns and Lee)
Batman (Snyder/Capullo)
Aquaman (Johns/Reis)
Green Lantern (was to remain unchanged)
Red Lanterns
Swamp Thing (Snyder)
The Flash (Johns)

If I remember correctly, there was also talk of Morrison taking over a Superman title after Grounded wrapped up. That could be a rumor, however.

At some point, an edict was issued that demanded a huge increase in sales in the publishing division, including a digital initiative. I've also read speculation (Bleeding Cool) that the WB's plans for Man of Steel and the legal battle over Superman were also part of the decision to do a full reboot.

I honestly think the titles listed above, along with new series and teams, a full exploitation of the Multiverse concept, digital release, and increased marketing and a plan similar to what Marvel did with Marvel Now! could have been more than enough to stave off a reboot.

I had heard some of these rumors too. I didn't know what to believe and what not, however. What I had heard about Morrison was that he was working on a "prequel" to ALL STAR about a Superman who started his career by leaping instead of flying. All of this was before the reboot, of course. That "prequel" obviously turned out to be the reboot. From what I had heard, Didio took credit for the reboot being his idea though who was responsible for what exactly was never quite clear. But everything I heard also suggested the WB corporate had at least a guiding hand in the decision making process. So an order from on high isn't out of the question. Especially since it was well known that they were not happy with the lack of success DC movies were having in comparison with Marvel's. So let's switch up the question a little bit: If the reboot was an order from up top, do Didio, Johns, and Lee really deserve all the hate they get for it?

[Darth Kal-el]

Disney should also do something with Mickey Mouse. When was that character last used in anything?

I agree I can't think of the last time I saw something new with any of the main Disney characters I loved as a kid. Though I hear Ducktaiks is being revamped and that was my favorite. I always wanted a money bin like Uncle Scrooge

[Darth Kal-el]

I had heard some of these rumors too. I didn't know what to believe and what not, however. What I had heard about Morrison was that he was working on a "prequel" to ALL STAR about a Superman who started his career by leaping instead of flying. All of this was before the reboot, of course. That "prequel" obviously turned out to be the reboot. From what I had heard, Didio took credit for the reboot being his idea though who was responsible for what exactly was never quite clear. But everything I heard also suggested the WB corporate had at least a guiding hand in the decision making process. So an order from on high isn't out of the question. Especially since it was well known that they were not happy with the lack of success DC movies were having in comparison with Marvel's. So let's switch up the question a little bit: If the reboot was an order from up top, do Didio, Johns, and Lee really deserve all the hate they get for it?

No but people always want to blame someone and Didio has always for some reason been a villain to some fans though he seems like a nice guy. What he did with DC from 2004 through 2009 was pretty amazing. Lee never seems to get any blame. And no one seems to know what exactly Diane Nelson does or Harras for that matter because Didio still gets the blame he got what Levitz was publisher. I just don't think Didio and Lee have much power beyond Lee constantly republishing Hush