GIANT-SIZE X-POSITION: Bendis Ties Up "All-New X-Men's" Loose Ends

[RandyMcDonald]

I've never said her heart wasn't in the right place, but what she did wasn't the way to do it. If you want to help, help your friend come out on their terms, not on yours. Even if it's just to one person, particularly the first one.

What if the person does not know what's going on? Bobby stated directly that he thought that he was going crazy. I can find it entirely plausible that he might not have been able to figure things out, at least not in a timely manner.

There's also Jean's perspective. Even if she isn't intrusively reading his mind, it is plausible given how Marvel telepathy works that she was picking up stray, intense thoughts from Bobby. She would have known what was going on, and that Bobby was upset. Would it have been ethical for her not to intervene if she knew that her friend was suffering, knew why he was suffering, and could plausibly help him?

As you said, it's a morally grey situation. It's someone doing something bad (invading their privacy), but with good intentions (helping them with their struggling sexuality), that may justify it. The fact that it's a grey situation makes the acknowledgement in the comic even more important.

It is acknowledged in the comic. This analysis

http://teaberryblue.tumblr.com/post/...ats-fine-and-i

makes the point that Bobby's distress is made clear, particularly in his closed-off body language, his actual hiding, and his inarticulateness.

Agreed. If Disney doesn't want to promote the XMen films, they probably shouldn't have a teen Scott & teen Jean remain focused on.

This, along with the popularity of the comic, is why I think the O5 won't return. I suspect that they might not return.

Ugh, not this garbage again. I think even Bendis used this angle to "guilt" the fanbase for not accepting Bendis-23. Look, just because you apparently like X-23 in a teen book where she kisses or sleeps with a guy every 10th issue and for the 9 issues in between she's mostly used to fill out the background of comic panels and to deliver the occasional moody or gruff line doesn't make you a "better fan" than someone who enjoys her more in her solo books where she got more development or in an action-focused title like X-Force.

I like her solo books and I think her portrayal in ANXM is acceptable. Characters change, and a solo book is different from a group book, but her portrayal does not strike me as discontinuous from (say) Avengers Arena.

I also don't understand the disliking of her being involved, first tentatively with Cyclops and later more seriously with Angel. Why not? It doesn't mark her as a bad person.

Battleworld, and probably what will come after it, isn't located in the 616. The 616 is going be destroyed as all other universes.
What will take its place will be a result of bit and pieces from various universe. It won't be the result of the past of one specific universe or another. It won't matter if the timeline of an universe is destroyed because Battleword, and what come after it, won't be the result of that timeline. (Either it's the result of all the timelines of the various universes or it's the result of none: Time exist only in the reference frame of an universe. There is no "before" and no "after" because time is part of the universe itself and doesn't exist outside of it. No universe=no timeline. If a new universe is somehow created, it get a new timeline).

This is probably the rationale that will be used for not returning them.

[Fifolet]

Yes, with pleasure. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the three Fantomexes; I enjoyed fixing Bishop, I loved Storm/Psylocke bond, we always need more Spiral, more Puck. It was a solid run. Was it "a work of genius", no. But I'd happily see him take over than Remender or Hickman.

The execution wasn't even bad. In the first arc Psylocke swore a lot, and I agree it was out of place; and that put a lot of people off (in fact a lot of characters swore, far more than usual). But the actually relationships and interaction were well respected. Storm was fierce, Humphries had Psylocke kick ass, and get very creative with her powers, Puck was very funny. He used some exciting/clever styles of storytelling with the art (when it split into a computer game mode was awesome). It was A+ on the creativity, B+ on character. Some hated it, but some hate ANYTHING with Fantomex, ANYTHING with Cassandra Nova that isn't by Morrison. I remember the reviews, the people who actually read the comic (and didn't have bias) liked it. The ending fizzled out, but it was amalgamated with the other X-force series; so everything deteriorated.

I'd 100% recommend getting the first TPB to try it. It was bold, in places (Psylocke's potential bisexual, rewriting Bishop as a paladin hunting reveres, making Storm an honorary Paladin, Spiral becoming an anti-hero); it was just really solid. At the very least, it was never "safe"; and that's the worst thing a comic writer can be.

I'm glad you enjoyed it a lot more than me. I wish i could also say it was a solid run, but for me was really bad with some gems here and there. In a nutshell, i'd say the series is mandatory reading if you're a Psylocke fan, because she's absolutely awesome there throughout the series, but otherwise...

I'll give you that it didn't play safe and i give Humphries the credit for it. The Fantomexes arc was probably my favorite of that year. I just couldn't believe i was reading that on a mainstream marvel comic and i thought is was executed perfectly, and helped further develop the characters involved.
I remember the art on the book was really good. First Ron Garney (i still remember the scene in the subway), and later Talajic and Alphona.

As for the negatives:
I thought Storm was incompetent. And bitchy, not just bossy, which felt kinda off. Furthermore, the way Humphries used her character ruined a perfectly decent way of redeeming Bishop. I really think he dropped the ball on this and for me Bishop is left in a worse place than he was as a character, because now he isn't even a compelling villain material. That alone left a really bad taste in the mouth.
The mummudrai put me to sleep, and i can't recall the specifics of it now, but i remember reading it and thinking there were inconsistencies in the story and the mechanics of the plot.
Finally, i remember being so excited for Spiral having a slot in the team and being utterly disappointed with how she was handled.

When i look it at, out of the 17 issues, there were only 4 that felt really satisfying to me. The 3 issue arc of the Fantomexes and that issue with Psylocke and Wolverine on the mental landscape with the sheep. There are a few spots elsewhere that might be worth a look for the art, but storywise it didn't work for me.

But again, if you're a Psylocke fan, you should totally get this volume.

[Viteh]

What if the person does not know what's going on? Bobby stated directly that he thought that he was going crazy. I can find it entirely plausible that he might not have been able to figure things out, at least not in a timely manner.

There's also Jean's perspective. Even if she isn't intrusively reading his mind, it is plausible given how Marvel telepathy works that she was picking up stray, intense thoughts from Bobby. She would have known what was going on, and that Bobby was upset. Would it have been ethical for her not to intervene if she knew that her friend was suffering, knew why he was suffering, and could plausibly help him?



It is acknowledged in the comic. This analysis

http://teaberryblue.tumblr.com/post/...ats-fine-and-i

makes the point that Bobby's distress is made clear, particularly in his closed-off body language, his actual hiding, and his inarticulateness.



This, along with the popularity of the comic, is why I think the O5 won't return. I suspect that they might not return.

Not really buying the whole "Jean couldn't help read his thoughts". We've seen Jean intentionally go into other people's mind way too many times. I didn't read BW, but I remember someone saying that Storm told her not to read someone's mind and she did it anyway because she was curious. I think that was the issue right before this one.

You do make (or the analysis you pointed to) a good argument about Bobby's body language, that does show how it was a very incomfortable moment for Bobby. I'd have liked something more, but yeah, there's that.

[Narasinha]

Not really buying the whole "Jean couldn't help read his thoughts". We've seen Jean intentionally go into other people's mind way too many times

Jean said that she hasn't done anything. Up to you to ignore it or think she is lying. But that's not what is in the comic. That's probably why Bendis didn't addressed that point: he already did in the comic.

And it is canon that, in the MU, TP users can't help but hear other people thoughts. There is plenty of example and plenty of time where one telepath or another explained it. It was also regularly shown that they can be overhelmed by other people throughts.

There is already whole threads on that subject. Is it really needed to drag all this over again in this thread?

[Viteh]

Jean said that she hasn't done anything. Up to you to ignore it or think she is lying. But that's not what is in the comic. That's probably why Bendis didn't addressed that point: he already did in the comic.

And it is canon that, in the MU, TP users can't help but hear other people thoughts. There is plenty of example and plenty of time where one telepath or another explained it. It was also regularly shown that they can be overhelmed by other people throughts.

There is already whole threads on that subject. Is it really needed to drag all this over again in this thread?

Huh? She literally says "I can read your thoughts", and then says "You are thinking it right now". Granted, she also later says "I'm not doing anything", but I don't see how that could be true, seeing as how she just said she was reading his thoughts. Maybe she meant, she's not physically doing anything.

I know it's canon that some TP can't avoid certain thoughts, but I just don't think that's the case here. Jean has made it a habit of going into people's mind uninvited.

The conversation on this thread started from a question asked in the X-Position, so I don't see the problem of talking about it here. Also, I don't mean to sound rude, but if you don't want people talking about this in this thread, why did you reply to me with an argument of your own?

[Narasinha]

Huh? She literally says "I can read your thoughts", and then says "You are thinking it right now". Granted, she also later says "I'm not doing anything", but I don't see how that could be true, seeing as how she just said she was reading his thoughts.

Where did she said that she is reading his thoughts? She said that she "can" but that she isn't doing anything: he keep thinking about it.

The conversation on this thread started from a question asked in the X-Position, so I don't see the problem of talking about it here. Also, I don't mean to sound rude, but if you don't want people talking about this in this thread, why did you reply to me with an argument of your own?

No problem but it was talked over and over already and I hate repeating myself. I answered you because you keep bringing this up. But don't worry, I have no intent to continue this discussion.

[Viteh]

Where did she said that she is reading his thoughts? She said that she "can" but that she isn't doing anything: he keep thinking about it.

No problem but it was talked over and over already and I hate repeating myself. I answered you because you keep bringing this up. But don't worry, I have no intent to continue this discussion.

Bobby asked "Why would you say that", and she answered "Because I'm a psychic, I can read your thoughts". That's Jean saying she read his thoughts.

So because you don't like repeating yourself other people shouldn't talk about it here? I really don't see how one relates to the other.

I made an initial comment about the question I asked in the X-position, then someone replied to me, and we kept talking about it for a while. It's not like I went out of my way trying to find people talking about it so I could "keep bringing it up".

[kevinism]

OK I may be wrong but parallel dimensions and time travel are not the same.

I think you are wrong.

Unless of course the end of the multiverse mean the end of all universal rules and all is fair from that point.

I think this is correct.

[Viteh]

I think you are wrong.



I think this is correct.

I think it was back in New Avengers #2 that Reed Richards explained that when the multiverse dies, it happens across time as well.

[Kieran_Frost]

I'm glad you enjoyed it a lot more than me. I wish i could also say it was a solid run, but for me was really bad with some gems here and there. In a nutshell, i'd say the series is mandatory reading if you're a Psylocke fan, because she's absolutely awesome there throughout the series, but otherwise...

I'll give you that it didn't play safe and i give Humphries the credit for it. The Fantomexes arc was probably my favorite of that year. I just couldn't believe i was reading that on a mainstream marvel comic and i thought is was executed perfectly, and helped further develop the characters involved.
I remember the art on the book was really good. First Ron Garney (i still remember the scene in the subway), and later Talajic and Alphona.

As for the negatives:
I thought Storm was incompetent. And bitchy, not just bossy, which felt kinda off. Furthermore, the way Humphries used her character ruined a perfectly decent way of redeeming Bishop. I really think he dropped the ball on this and for me Bishop is left in a worse place than he was as a character, because now he isn't even a compelling villain material. That alone left a really bad taste in the mouth.
The mummudrai put me to sleep, and i can't recall the specifics of it now, but i remember reading it and thinking there were inconsistencies in the story and the mechanics of the plot.
Finally, i remember being so excited for Spiral having a slot in the team and being utterly disappointed with how she was handled.

When i look it at, out of the 17 issues, there were only 4 that felt really satisfying to me. The 3 issue arc of the Fantomexes and that issue with Psylocke and Wolverine on the mental landscape with the sheep. There are a few spots elsewhere that might be worth a look for the art, but storywise it didn't work for me.

But again, if you're a Psylocke fan, you should totally get this volume.

While I obviously disagree on certain parts, this is a solid assessment. I will say for 17 issues, he actually did explore a lot. A lot of good character work (or at-least explored character work). And YES the Fantomex arc was my favourite too. So many hated it, but I thought it was awesome. And that psychic issue in the mind. We are identical on appreciating that.

Huh? She literally says "I can read your thoughts", and then says "You are thinking it right now". Granted, she also later says "I'm not doing anything", but I don't see how that could be true, seeing as how she just said she was reading his thoughts. Maybe she meant, she's not physically doing anything.

I know it's canon that some TP can't avoid certain thoughts, but I just don't think that's the case here. Jean has made it a habit of going into people's mind uninvited.

100% DISAGREE! Jean has said she can't always control what thoughts or whose thoughts she hears (that's canon). In the issue it doesn't (on any level) imply this was the first time she "heard" these thoughts, merely now was the time to tackle the issue. I agree Jean delves into people's mind's uninvited BUT you don't have any proof that is how she found out Bobby was gay. It could very easily (and considering he's a teenager, he'll be thinking about sex a lot) be one of the many times she "hears" it without looking for it.

You don't like the story (I understand that), but we already have enough posters hating on this development (for sadly obvious reasons) do you REALLY need to be throwing so much shade to this bursting pile-on? The story happened, you aren't happy (I get that) but come on. How many threads are you going to attack this story; when developments like this (one you have said was with the best of intentions, even if handled badly) are rare and need more support from us. Come on. We need to support stories like these (as best we can); or at the very least turn the other cheek. Greater good was done. And I know you care about these issues but you ALSO care about representation of LGBT in media; and that is exactly what this story is helping. Bury that hatchet, man. It's done, it happened. Let's move on. #toughLOVE

[XCE]

Clearly you are, because one of those times DIDN'T ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

I know, I know, calm down. The fact that it didn't happen inside the comic is irrelevant to my argument. Basically, she's taken center stage three times and all three times it's just been shipteasing, teen relationship drama and controversial "ooh, she's kissing this guy, ooh, she's kissing that guy". Do a Google search for "X-23 All-New X-Men" and it's mostly pages upon pages of stuff relating to her role as a love interest and those three issues in particular. It really is all she will be remembered for in this title.

I also don't understand the disliking of her being involved, first tentatively with Cyclops and later more seriously with Angel. Why not? It doesn't mark her as a bad person.

Again, you guys are projecting stuff onto me that I neither said nor think. Of course it doesn't mark her as a bad person. It's just not the kind of story I'm interested in reading with this character. I want to read stuff more like that found in her solo books and in X-Force, the material that made me a fan. It probably wouldn't be so bad if it was a sideplot in a solo book that had more time to explore different plot points, but it's now been, what, one and a half year of it being the ONLY thing I've been served as an X-23 fan.

You guys can feel however you want about ANXM, I haven't said you can't. Please give me the same courtesy as my opinion is perfectly valid.

[Viteh]

100% DISAGREE! Jean has said she can't always control what thoughts or whose thoughts she hears (that's canon). In the issue it doesn't (on any level) imply this was the first time she "heard" these thoughts, merely now was the time to tackle the issue. I agree Jean delves into people's mind's uninvited BUT you don't have any proof that is how she found out Bobby was gay. It could very easily (and considering he's a teenager, he'll be thinking about sex a lot) be one of the many times she "hears" it without looking for it.

You don't like the story, but we already have enough posters hating on this development (for sadly obvious reasons) do you REALLY need to be throwing so much shade to this pile-on? The story happened, you aren't happy (I get that) but come on. How many threads are you going to attack this story; when developments like this (one you have said was with the best of intentions, even if handled badly) are rare and need more support from us. Come on. Bury that hatchet, man. It's done, it happened. Let's move on.

Heh, you may have a point there. Although I said "I don't think that's the case", that's me giving my opinion, not claiming it as fact. Lack of proof goes both ways.

I only started talking about it here because I asked a question in the x-position, and I was commenting on the answer I was given. Like I said before, it's not like I go hunting for people to fight me on this.

Although I don't 100% agree that a story shouldn't be criticized because it has a good intentions. Divergent opinions aren't a bad thing.

[twincast]

The only problem with this was the way Warren was brought in like a "consolation prize" after Tyke went into space. There's a reason why Cyx-23 is third only to Helix and Jubilex among fans; it was actually being quite well built up and.

Eh, Jubilex is the only one of those I ever even remotely cared for, let alone about. At least Angel-23 is merely bland; I have nothing good whatsoever to say about either of the other two pairings.

But SW is different in that all those alternate worlds were destroyed. It isn't an alternate timeline, it's the only one.

For now. Also, while true, not really relevant an argument regarding events that happened before BW.

I think you are wrong.

I think this is correct.

Yup*2.

[Lethargyman]

I know, I know, calm down. The fact that it didn't happen inside the comic is irrelevant to my argument. Basically, she's taken center stage three times and all three times it's just been shipteasing, teen relationship drama and controversial "ooh, she's kissing this guy, ooh, she's kissing that guy". Do a Google search for "X-23 All-New X-Men" and it's mostly pages upon pages of stuff relating to her role as a love interest and those three issues in particular. It really is all she will be remembered for in this title.

Again, you guys are projecting stuff onto me that I neither said nor think. Of course it doesn't mark her as a bad person. It's just not the kind of story I'm interested in reading with this character. I want to read stuff more like that found in her solo books and in X-Force, the material that made me a fan. It probably wouldn't be so bad if it was a sideplot in a solo book that had more time to explore different plot points, but it's now been, what, one and a half year of it being the ONLY thing I've been served as an X-23 fan.

You guys can feel however you want about ANXM, I haven't said you can't. Please give me the same courtesy as my opinion is perfectly valid.

You're still glossing over the part where Laura saved pretty much everybody by gutting Kid Xavier; current X-men, O5 and future Brotherhood brainwashees alike. That's certainly one of the best moments from ANX that I'll be remembering years from now. As I said earlier, I'd love a new X-23 solo book, and I'd love Lui to return to Laura-cannon (and some bloody reprints of her first series wouldn't go amiss, I'm missing Chaos Theory and it's clown-shoes expensive if you can find it), but I can also see Bendis' limitations in terms of what he could do with Laura in an ensemble book that she was brought in on rather than being a premiere feature of. He focussed on giving her some well needed levity in my opinion. Yours may differ (and clearly does, which you are completely entitled to), but it still doesn't stop me feeling sad that some rare moments of happiness/tenderness are so maligned because they're deemed 'out of character'.

I look forward to seeing what Soule has been doing when Wolverines comes out in trade, and seeing where Laura will go next after this unintelligable Secret Wars business.

[RandyMcDonald]

100% DISAGREE! Jean has said she can't always control what thoughts or whose thoughts she hears (that's canon).

It could very easily (and considering he's a teenager, he'll be thinking about sex a lot) be one of the many times she "hears" it without looking for it.

And, as I keep saying, if Bobby is so confused and upset by this that he thinks he's going crazy, this emotionally intense thinking from someone she's close to is exactly the sort of thing that would penetrate what shields and self-control as Jeen has developed.