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  1. #76
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viteh View Post
    Jean being psychic kinda makes it worse in my opinion. It's like reading someone's diary and then confronting them about it.

    I agree that they happen in real life, nor do I think it shouldn't have been shown. My problem is that it is happening without any acknowledgement that it's not "super happy" as you put it. When bad stuff happens, or characters act badly, it's usually said, or at the very least implied.
    So if someone wrote in their diary they wanted to commit suicide, you wouldn't want to read it and confront them about it to help them get over their problems?
    She felt her friend was struggling with his sexuality and she wanted to help. What a monster.

    Because it wasn't inherently bad. It's a morally grey situation. Some people thought it was the worst thing ever. Others thought it was a nice display of one friend trying to help another.

  2. #77
    Mighty Member Viteh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    So if someone wrote in their diary they wanted to commit suicide, you wouldn't want to read it and confront them about it to help them get over their problems?
    She felt her friend was struggling with his sexuality and she wanted to help. What a monster.

    Because it wasn't inherently bad. It's a morally grey situation. Some people thought it was the worst thing ever. Others thought it was a nice display of one friend trying to help another.
    Really? That's the comparison you are going with?

    I've never said her heart wasn't in the right place, but what she did wasn't the way to do it. If you want to help, help your friend come out on their terms, not on yours. Even if it's just to one person, particularly the first one.

    As you said, it's a morally grey situation. It's someone doing something bad (invading their privacy), but with good intentions (helping them with their struggling sexuality), that may justify it. The fact that it's a grey situation makes the acknowledgement in the comic even more important.

  3. #78

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    I feel kinda bad for Bendis because his run was like a placeholder. For this fan, it was very easy to say it never happened. He wrote not one word of Rogue with plot points that would have directly involved her. Basically it is all easily gone and will be retconned anyway after SW. One of the least impactful X-Men runs ever really.

  4. #79
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viteh View Post
    Really? That's the comparison you are going with?

    I've never said her heart wasn't in the right place, but what she did wasn't the way to do it. If you want to help, help your friend come out on their terms, not on yours. Even if it's just to one person, particularly the first one.

    As you said, it's a morally grey situation. It's someone doing something bad (invading their privacy), but with good intentions (helping them with their struggling sexuality), that may justify it. The fact that it's a grey situation makes the acknowledgement in the comic even more important.
    It's an apt comparison. So yes, that's the one I'm going with.
    As for helping your friend come out on their terms. Sometimes people don't come out. And then they go on marrying people of the opposite sex leading miserable lives.
    Some people actually need a push.

  5. #80
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixie_solanas View Post
    I really wouldn't and i'm being 100% truthful. I'm not beholden to any sort of idea what she should or should not be.
    That... makes no sense. What exactly about 'Pixie' are you a fan of, then? The wings?

    The X-Men isn't Brecht or some other absurdist work where any and everything can happen for no reason.
    Last edited by nx01a; 05-12-2015 at 05:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  6. #81
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jen View Post
    I feel kinda bad for Bendis because his run was like a placeholder. For this fan, it was very easy to say it never happened. He wrote not one word of Rogue with plot points that would have directly involved her. Basically it is all easily gone and will be retconned anyway after SW. One of the least impactful X-Men runs ever really.
    Except for all the times it's stated that these things will continue on after Secret Wars.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethargyman View Post
    Bendis can't win.

    Which is it guys? Is he pandering too much to what the fans on Tumblr want, or is he not asking you directly where he should take these characters because you obviously know his job better than he does?

    I'm a long-term X-23 fan, from her first appearance in NYX to today. I have no problem with how Bendis has portrayed her, because people don't actually stay the same. They grow, they take on aspects of the people around them. It's called cultural socialization, and you can read it in Laura in many ways - as a conscious act - she's attempting to blend in with her peers through calculated actions and language - or maybe she's simply starting to loosen up a little after surviving the horrors inflicted on her over and over, taking every opportunity to grab some small semblance of happiness while she still can, before it's all inevitably taken away again.

    I just don't understand how many people want her to stay a mono-syllabic broken doll who can't ever step out of the role she was created for. It's supremely depressing that the people who claim to love her actually hate her that much.

    For the record, I doubt she'll stay with Warren long. Her life could never sustain that sort of relationship, regardless of how tenuous it was in the first place.
    It's not a matter of not wanting her to change or grow. It's the matter of HOW. I've even said that Bendis has gotten a better feel for writing her as his sting went on, and it was mainly the initial few issues that were truly bad.

    The problem is that Bendis has relied far too much on telling how she's changed rather than SHOWING her grow. And most of that TELLING has been through Word of God comments in X-Position, etc. That's a pretty fundamental failure as a writer when you have to rely on meta explanations because what you're doing it SO far off established character it makes no sense.
    Last edited by Ambaryerno; 05-12-2015 at 05:51 PM.

  8. #83

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    I honestly have no sympathy. The man wasted 8 issues on a arc that is completely undone in the end with time travel. He has nobody to blame but himself for running out of time.

  9. #84
    Spectacular Member Rotm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _underscore View Post
    Can we just ban all of North America from using the word "literally" until they've proven that they looked up what it means?

    I swear, it's misused 9 out of 10 times by people who really should know better.
    Merriam Webster recognizes that use of it as correct.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    It's not a matter of not wanting her to change or grow. It's the matter of HOW. I've even said that Bendis has gotten a better feel for writing her as his sting went on, and it was mainly the initial few issues that were truly bad.

    The problem is that Bendis has relied far too much on telling how she's changed rather than SHOWING her grow. And most of that TELLING has been through Word of God comments in X-Position, etc. That's a pretty fundamental failure as a writer when you have to rely on meta explanations because it's not clear in the story itself.
    I think one can see the changes through many life changing experiences she had during bendis run, for example seeing a world that's so screwed yours looks good in comparison, getting shot by a giant whale and almost die, got trapped in amber while being completely conscious. All of those near death experiences made her realize she wasn't really living her life thus she decides to accept the first chance of happiness. Or you can blame it on Axis and the inversion, inverted Laura would have been awesome, I bet she'd make carnage look like a kid in comparison

  11. #86
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    I actually really enjoyed Bendis on the X-Men... the run had great character moments; it was really refreshing to also see how many of the plot lines did no devolve in the usual slugfest (with the exception of Battle of the Atom), imo... characters he introduced were great... Uncanny and All-New were easily in my top 5 of the whole Marvel NOW era...

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    I think one can see the changes through many life changing experiences she had during bendis run, for example seeing a world that's so screwed yours looks good in comparison, getting shot by a giant whale and almost die, got trapped in amber while being completely conscious. All of those near death experiences made her realize she wasn't really living her life thus she decides to accept the first chance of happiness. Or you can blame it on Axis and the inversion, inverted Laura would have been awesome, I bet she'd make carnage look like a kid in comparison
    I'd still like to know how she was the ONLY one of the group hit by Knife's attack who didn't bounce right back from it. They even said she wasn't healing like she should be, and then just let it drop.

  13. #88
    Mighty Member Viteh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    It's an apt comparison. So yes, that's the one I'm going with.
    As for helping your friend come out on their terms. Sometimes people don't come out. And then they go on marrying people of the opposite sex leading miserable lives.
    Some people actually need a push.
    I think it misses the point as it's comparing being gay to something that is literally life threatening.

    Yeah, people sometimes need a push, but this wasn't the way to do it. You can see Bobby asking her not to read his mind, then when he's trying to figure things out, she tells him, rather than asks him, what he is. It's not ideal. But like I said before, it's real. My issue is that it's being presented as something with no problems.

  14. #89
    Out Fighting for Peace! AJpyro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambaryerno View Post
    i'd still like to know how she was the only one of the group hit by knife's attack who didn't bounce right back from it. They even said she wasn't healing like she should be, and then just let it drop.
    the plot demands you to do nothing x23!
    Le Suck it, Dolphin!

    -God I am so tired.

    SCOTT SUMMERS AND EMMA FROST DESERVED BETTER.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    I'd still like to know how she was the ONLY one of the group hit by Knife's attack who didn't bounce right back from it. They even said she wasn't healing like she should be, and then just let it drop.
    I bet she thought it was a great idea to jump to the giant whale and was expecting to chop it to pieces with her claws (too much one piece) . I'm sure she lost all sense of strategy before the UU arc, because following teen Jean is... a bad idea, I'm sure she could have seized the leadership of the O5 in Tyke absence and gotten them a better mision.

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