Convergence and the Multiverse....

[wonder39]

DC should/could be making this so much easier in the long run.... return the "original" Multiverse.

SOme tweaks would be required, but this is really what's needed to simplify everything, respect old and new readers...

Convergence ends-- boom! The real Multiverse is back.

Earth 0= Post Crisis Earth (it's the most cluttered, since it was the compression of the MUltiverse in COIE-- therefore it makes sens for it to be the "original" Earth... we get Perez Wonder Woman, etc...

Earth 1= Silver/Bronze Age Earth One.
Earth 2= Golden Age Earth Two
Earth 3= Crime Syndicate
Earth 4= Thunder World (Shazam)
Earth 5= Flashpoint Earth
etc
etc
Earth 22= Kingdom Come Earth
etc
etc
Earth 52= Nu52

Fill in the other Earths with whatever Elseworlds etc you want...leave them open...it's INFINITE and doesn't matter.

If DC wants to then focus on Earth 52 (nu52) then fine-- but at some point we can cross over to the other Earths/continuities.

But what I'd love to then have happen is for DC to create a half dozen "banners" under which certain titles would appear-- so Like "Nu52" banner includes whatever 6 titles they feel are most important. Then you have "Earth Two" Where you get titles like "All Star Squadron"-- set in WWII, and then maybe a modern JSA and Infinity Inc. "Earth One" banner includes the satellite era JLA, Broze Age SUoerman, Batman, WW, New Teen Titans, etc etc..... "Earth Zero" (or Maybe "Post Crisis") has the bwahahaha JLA and Perez's WW....

By opening up the universe to both old and new continuities we have more story options.... we know that even if we don't see the version of a character we love, well then they're out there. We could have nu52's WW pairing up with the Golden Age WW on an adventure, or "Bwahaha" JL pairing up with Kingdom Come's JL...... I dunno-- it just seems like more fun!

Matt

[ArachKing05]

That's pretty much been my take on how all this should end too...but it makes far too much sense for DiDio/DC in general to implement, IMO...

I suppose there's also the matter of the multiple Earth 2's & whatnot, but that's solvable in the written designation - eg. "Earth Two" is the Golden Age to Pre-Crisis version, whilst "Earth 2" designates the current New52 iteration; Earth X to refer to the Pre-Crisis Freedom Fighters' world, and Earth 10 to refer to the version seen in Multiversity recently.

[MajorHoy]

But, aside from a bunch of old whiny fanboys (and maybe a couple of fangirls) who keep yelling "Get off my lawn!" through their loose-fitting dentures, how many current DC readers really want the old Multiverse characters and continuity back?

[t hedge coke]

Wouldn't taking "Earth-1" away from the comics with a big Earth One banner on them make that even more confusing?

Wouldn't renumbering after we've just had nine or ten months of this numbering be more confusing? More arbitrary changes?

Isn't it entirely possible to still tell stories using those pre-Flashpoint versions of characters or alternate versions, whenever someone really wants to and DC wants to publish it?

Other than a status thing, what would be the point? There is an infinite multiverse. That multiverse includes post-Crisis history and pre-Crisis history. That multiverse includes whatever future alternate universes DC feels like publishing. It includes all the ones they used to publish. Dan Didio has, to date, never once come into my apartment and stolen any Perez Wonder Woman issues or Grant Morrison JLA from me.

[Xon-Ur]

A friend of mine who used to be a member of these boards until he was banned posited this very idea, though he established a lineup based on the existing post-Flashpoint and Multiversity Multiverse. His idea was the same: split the number of titles published across the Multiverse. Use sales to determine what sticks around and what doesn't.

Will DC do this? I don't think so at all. This current regime is not open to the idea of the recurring presence of multiple versions of characters they want to put their stamp on. T-shirt/jeans/buzzcut Superman on a motorcycle trumps iconic Superman married to Lois Lane with their new baby.

Will the continuities in Convergence go away? Not likely, but we won't see them again for a while.

[t hedge coke]

T-shirt/jeans/buzzcut Superman on a motorcycle trumps iconic Superman married to Lois Lane with their new baby.

There is no version of this that is iconic to anyone, much less a wide public. I'm not sure the buzzcut motorcycle Superman even exists, but I know that there is no iconic image of Superman and Lois, married, holding a baby. I'd have noticed all the homages by now.

[Xon-Ur]

There is no version of this that is iconic to anyone, much less a wide public. I'm not sure the buzzcut motorcycle Superman even exists, but I know that there is no iconic image of Superman and Lois, married, holding a baby. I'd have noticed all the homages by now.

You're incorrect. Superman is an iconic, mythic character that has 73 years of iconic elements in place that are most recognized by the general public: the classic uniform (WITH trunks), the relationship with the Daily Planet staff, the love triangle, and most of all, the universal values of nobility, compassion, and humanity.

The iteration we've seen since 2011 (and in the films since 2012) is not the iconic Superman and is, instead, a caricature. While the elements of an iconic hero can be expanded upon and explored in new ways, the story and the core elements of the character must remain the same.

The same applies to the other comic book characters that are modern myths.

[Cipher]

They should've been using the multiverse concept for reboots in the first place. That's basically what it was made for, and it's far more intuitive than having both different multiverse timelines ("hypertime") and multiversal Earths. That a number of readers, even on these boards, seem to have trouble discerning the two should be telling.

So, yeah. Wholeheartedly agreed. While we're at it, there's absolutely no reason to limit the multiverse to a distinct number either. Bring all those cross-media adaptations in.

A friend of mine who used to be a member of these boards until he was banned posited this very idea, though he established a lineup based on the existing post-Flashpoint and Multiversity Multiverse. His idea was the same: split the number of titles published across the Multiverse. Use sales to determine what sticks around and what doesn't.

That ... seems less sustainable to me, and would be an absolute clusterf*ck for new readers. I can absolutely see why DC would only want to focus (mainly) on one timeline/universe at a time.

This is also likely why DC opted for the less-intuitive "rebooot the timeline" approach in the first place, rather than jumping to other Earths -- it curtails fan expectations that they constantly use them, and prevents them from getting bogged down with too many "Hey, hey, this is Earth 23 from the Post-Crisis age" editorial notes, especially when you're dealing with functionally similar universes from different eras rather than clear Elseworlds books.

That said, if they can stick to their guns and only bring in the other universes sparingly, yes, yes. The idea proposed in this thread makes far more sense.

[MajorHoy]

There is no version of this that is iconic to anyone, much less a wide public. I'm not sure the buzzcut motorcycle Superman even exists, but I know that there is no iconic image of Superman and Lois, married, holding a baby. I'd have noticed all the homages by now.

Yeah, the "married to Lois" bit is truly a more "recent" development in the overall history of the character, unless we're talking about the pre-CoIE version of Earth-2 Superman.

[GlennSimpson]

Your'e incorrect. Superman is an iconic, mythic character that has 73 years of iconic elements in place that are most recognized by the general public: the classic uniform (WITH trunks), the relationship with the Daily Planet staff, the love triangle, and most of all, the universal values of nobility, compassion, and humanity.

The iteration we've seen since 2011 (and in the films since 2012) is not the iconic Superman and is, instead, a caricature. While the elements of an iconic hero can be expanded upon and explored in new ways, the story and the core elements of the character must remain the same.

The same applies to the other comic book characters that are modern myths.

That's funny, because thousands of people have been buying Superman books since 2011 (and arguably more of them than before 2011) and they don't seem to be confused at all...

[Xon-Ur]

Yeah, the "married to Lois" bit is truly a more "recent" development in the overall history of the character, unless we're talking about the pre-CoIE version of Earth-2 Superman.

Being married to Lois is relatively new. The relationship with Lois, however, is an integral part of the Iconic Superman's myth.

[t hedge coke]

Being married to Lois is relatively new. The relationship with Lois, however, is an integral part of the Iconic Superman's myth.

Yes, it is. And I never argued that.

But there is no iconic image of them, married, holding a baby. Not even the earliest times we saw such things, way back in, at latest, the 1950s. There are images of a married Supes and Lois and a baby, yes. There are no iconic images of this for any significant group of people, unless you'd care to produce one.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

You're incorrect. Superman is an iconic, mythic character that has 73 years of iconic elements in place that are most recognized by the general public: the classic uniform (WITH trunks), the relationship with the Daily Planet staff, the love triangle, and most of all, the universal values of nobility, compassion, and humanity.

The iteration we've seen since 2011 (and in the films since 2012) is not the iconic Superman and is, instead, a caricature. While the elements of an iconic hero can be expanded upon and explored in new ways, the story and the core elements of the character must remain the same.

The same applies to the other comic book characters that are modern myths.

Are you seriously arguing the current Superman isn't "noble"? Based on what, aside from a handful of dumb Lobdell/Johns comics that don't begin to outweigh the exact same sort of stuff that was happening before the reboot? And I'm a pro-trunks guy myself, but it's hardly as if the costume had never gone through any significant changes before 2011.

[Sacred Knight]

The Superman we've had since 2011 is closer to the standard, classic Superman in the true sense of those words than Superman had been in a decade prior. Outside of the updated costume, of course.

[t hedge coke]

Are you seriously arguing the current Superman isn't "noble"? Based on what, aside from a handful of dumb Lobdell/Johns comics that don't begin to outweigh the exact same sort of stuff that was happening before the reboot? And I'm a pro-trunks guy myself, but it's hardly as if the costume had never gone through any significant changes before 2011.

Morrison, Perez, Pak and Lee wouldn't know compassion or nobility if it slapped their bottom. It's all motorcycles with that crowd and aggressively not having babies he can hold in iconic pictures.