SECRET WARS #2 Spoilers

[Biclopcicle]

I'm a little lost between what happened at the end of Avengers/Secret Wars #1 and now. Captain America was super-pissed because Tony Stark said that there was never any avoiding this (the Final Incursion) or something. In Secret Wars #1, the Ultimate Universe and the 616 Universe are having all-out war with each other, while Reed and co. try to get away on a raft. And in Secret Wars #2, we're... in Battleworld.

I guess I don't really understand what happened. What was it that Tony Stark believed couldn't be avoided? The 616 Earth had destroyed lots of other Earths before, so why not the Ultimate Earth? Did the Ult. Universe and 616 Universe like collide into each other off-screen and we didn't see it or what?

And the 616 crew couldn't prevent the incursion from completion because a) they only had one hour, and more importantly b) once they reconciled with Rogers, the Illuminati wasn't going to destroy any more earths, and they already dispatched the Cabal, who had been doing the dirty work for awhile. 1610 guys were pretty much overmatched; Maker and the Cabal knew this going into the Final Incursion. Thus their version of the life raft

[vitruvian]

Honestly it makes more sense that each incursion site was being collected along the way in that nanosecond delay that Tchalla discovered, but then the timing of appearance of the domes is somewhat problematic. Maybe they were just some aftereffect of Doom collecting the incursion sites.but why appear then? Clearly Hickman will get to this in the near future

I don't know, did they look back along the timeline of those universes that had completed Incursions (and experienced the millisecond delay), or is it possible that those Earths had the domes come up as well? Perhaps they only show up when a world is shortly to experience its last and final Incursion...

[PlanetaryDevastation]

And the 616 crew couldn't prevent the incursion from completion because a) they only had one hour, and more importantly b) once they reconciled with Rogers, the Illuminati wasn't going to destroy any more earths, and they already dispatched the Cabal, who had been doing the dirty work for awhile. 1610 guys were pretty much overmatched; Maker and the Cabal knew this going into the Final Incursion. Thus their version of the life raft

You forgot to mention that destroying Earths weren't going to work anymore. The universe was still ending.

[vitruvian]

You forgot to mention that destroying Earths weren't going to work anymore. The universe was still ending.

Panel where that was stated? To clarify, that both universes would die immediately, whether one or the other Earth was destroyed or not, not the gradual death indicated by the suicidal stars factor. Or is that to what you're referring? Because the gradual heat death option might give a whole lot more time than an hour for the surviving Earth, or aliens in either universe, to figure out better escape hatches if not outright solutions.

[bandoogiemanz]

I'm surprised Marvel didn't promote this as Game of Thrones meets the Marvel Universe, it would make sense in this case unlike the other books they described as that.

Like when they billed the Inhumans book as Game of Thrones style.

[dragonmp93]

Like when they billed the Inhumans book as Game of Thrones style.

Or how they will promote the X-men book.

[jackolover]

I didn't realize that about Hickman's plan. Hopefully Marvel is extending Secret Wars an additional issue to make up for it.

I did overlook that it was more than just Corvus attacking, but my quibble remains. I think that 616 Thor would put on a better showing against them even if surprised. He might eventually lose, but I don't think he would be ambushed and killed that easily.

At earlier times, the Thor-616 would have a whirling hammer deflect all those spears. Maybe not Proxima's spear, perhaps.

[jphamlore]

Panel where that was stated? To clarify, that both universes would die immediately, whether one or the other Earth was destroyed or not, not the gradual death indicated by the suicidal stars factor. Or is that to what you're referring? Because the gradual heat death option might give a whole lot more time than an hour for the surviving Earth, or aliens in either universe, to figure out better escape hatches if not outright solutions.

Thanos right after Ultimate Reed persuaded Ultimate Fury to send everything Ultimate S.H.I.E.L.D. had to the incursion site, before Ultimate Reed had had time to re-do his dome and the Children of Tomorrow: "We've run every simulation there is. We've reached the death of everything. There is no saving anything. No victory to be had. No victory of any kind. So why lie to them."

Ultimate Reed in reply: "I lied because we need just a little more time ..."

The two universes were ending right then and there regardless of whether one Earth succeeded in destroying the other.

[jackolover]

Thanos right after Ultimate Reed persuaded Ultimate Fury to send everything Ultimate S.H.I.E.L.D. had to the incursion site, before Ultimate Reed had had time to re-do his dome and the Children of Tomorrow: "We've run every simulation there is. We've reached the death of everything. There is no saving anything. No victory to be had. No victory of any kind. So why lie to them."

Ultimate Reed in reply: "I lied because we need just a little more time ..."

The two universes were ending right then and there regardless of whether one Earth succeeded in destroying the other.

Yes, the Ultimate Reed knew this, but there is no indication 616-Reed knew this, or anyone else on Earth-616, so destroying UU Earth was still going to save Earth-616, as far as the 616 was concerned.

[Ciriaco]

Am I the only one feeling robbed of a zip code rap battle? Six one six versus sixteen one o, one's a real G the other one's a ... Perhaps that's slated for a tie-in?

[vitruvian]

Thanos right after Ultimate Reed persuaded Ultimate Fury to send everything Ultimate S.H.I.E.L.D. had to the incursion site, before Ultimate Reed had had time to re-do his dome and the Children of Tomorrow: "We've run every simulation there is. We've reached the death of everything. There is no saving anything. No victory to be had. No victory of any kind. So why lie to them."

Ultimate Reed in reply: "I lied because we need just a little more time ..."

The two universes were ending right then and there regardless of whether one Earth succeeded in destroying the other.

Wonder exactly how the Incursion would have completed if they had destroyed one of the Earths. Also how the couple of universes (out of the remaining 22 a few issues ago) that had their Earths destroyed, are now gone. Stars winking out is not the same thing as the whole universe not existing as a physical space any longer, if that was even supposed to be going on with them.

Since so many of the pivotal characters dealing with this are supposed to be scientists, you'd think they'd be specific about such things like scientists would be, assuming Hickman actually has answers in mind and isn't just engaging in hand waving to further the plot.

[Biclopcicle]

When I read that part I was under the impression that the simulations involved figuring a way to get his singularity device to the core. The 616 heroes are too numerous and powerful, and one hour was maybe too short of a time anyway. Maker did say the singularity device took longer than the antimatter bomb.

I think if the final incursion involved a "hero" earth and a non-hero earth, the hero earth could have survived the final incursion

[Crimz]

Yes, the Ultimate Reed knew this, but there is no indication 616-Reed knew this, or anyone else on Earth-616, so destroying UU Earth was still going to save Earth-616, as far as the 616 was concerned.

I think 616 Reed knew as well, that's why Black Panther went to the president and said there was no hope, and why Reed built the ark.

[somebody]

Panel where that was stated? To clarify, that both universes would die immediately, whether one or the other Earth was destroyed or not, not the gradual death indicated by the suicidal stars factor. Or is that to what you're referring? Because the gradual heat death option might give a whole lot more time than an hour for the surviving Earth, or aliens in either universe, to figure out better escape hatches if not outright solutions.

It wouldn't have mattered. Everything dies. The Beyonders made sure of it.

[vitruvian]

It wouldn't have mattered. Everything dies. The Beyonders made sure of it.

The Beyonders had the Molecule Men time bombs as their means to kill everything, so you're saying now if one Earth had destroyed the other, the two remaining universes would have died in another 12 years, correct?

Also, people are alive on Battleworld, so everything doesn't die. That's what everything means - if one single solitary thing lives, not everything dies. So, I guess they didn't make sure of anything.