SECRET WARS #2 Spoilers

[somebody]

The Beyonders had the Molecule Men time bombs as their means to kill everything, so you're saying now if one Earth had destroyed the other, the two remaining universes would have died in another 12 years, correct?

Also, people are alive on Battleworld, so everything doesn't die. That's what everything means - if one single solitary thing lives, not everything dies. So, I guess they didn't make sure of anything.

But you're reading it as a whole, not as a separation of each character. Reed had no knowledge of what Doom was doing. Doom was the catalyst that started this 12 years earlier. All paths, led by different men, bring us to everything dies. Which it would have with the Molecule Man bomb. Doom at least saved something. All the petty Illuminati/Avengers fighting would have left us with...well, what we have, unless Doom never interfered to begin with.

There would have been no time-table without Doom, or knowledge of what would have happened.

[jphamlore]

I stand by my assertion that in Secret Wars #1, if the death of both universes was not imminent, as in minutes, regardless of whether one Earth vaporized the other, then Thanos's words to Ultimate Reed at the start make no sense:

"We've run every simulation there is. We've reached the death of everything. There is no saving anything. No victory to be had. No victory of any kind ...

There is no honor from running from death ... people should know when their time is up."

If either universe had the chance at even a day's more of existence, Thanos's speech makes no sense.

I also contend that someone reading the issue should see that the issue point-blank states that Ultimate Reed is lying to Ultimate Nick Fury when he says that if Ultimate S.H.I.E.L.D. succeeds in securing the incursion area on 616 Earth for a planet-busting bomb, then the Ultimate Earth or universe has any chance. Ultimate Reed just wanted 616 Earth's forces to be kept away from his new dome and his Children of Tomorrow so they could build the escape raft for the Cabal.

[ShaokhaN]

Although I'm happy with 1 & 2 so far, and looking forward to further revelations, the story so far feels too... terrestrial. Although Battleworld is a conglomeration of multiple universes, it still has an unenlightened Von Doom 616 at its center.

Fine. I love Doom & all that, but I was expecting something deeper, more cosmic. We're getting what looks like Emperor Doom minus a Purple Man. And that's fine, but it's still the same Doom that believes the path to peace & safety is the suppression of dissension. It looks like this is leading to an ordinary fight where the good guys will win, but on a larger energy scale.

Maybe I was expecting more of the ruminations of the original Mr B. in Secret Wars 2, about the meaning of existence, and whether he created all this chaos but forgot. Or Thanos/Starlin-style explanations of what's really going on.

Anyway, there may be something behind the scenes, that we're not aware of yet. Doom seems to be the prime mover behind Battleworld, but it's still possible that the Beyonders (or the original, allegedly less powerful Mr. B.) manipulated things to lead to this point. Another good vs evil battle maybe, but with more shades of grey.

Not complaining, Hickman - you're doing fine, thanks, I'm glad to be aboard. This just feels a little less cosmic, than I expected for a story that deals with the death & birth of universes.

Although I've enjoyed the two issues of Secret Wars, this is exactly how I felt when Doom was revealed as Rabum Alal. "Oh, more of the same".

[Hypestyle]

... any people of color in the global hierarchy?

[somebody]

... any people of color in the global hierarchy?

None at all. In fact, they've whitewashed everyone.

[jphamlore]

... any people of color in the global hierarchy?

How would one classify En Saba Nur, Baron of the Domain of Apocalypse?

[jackolover]

I think 616 Reed knew as well, that's why Black Panther went to the president and said there was no hope, and why Reed built the ark.

They knew that nobody was going to blow up Ultimate Earth for them, so yes, THE END.

[jackolover]

But you're reading it as a whole, not as a separation of each character. Reed had no knowledge of what Doom was doing. Doom was the catalyst that started this 12 years earlier. All paths, led by different men, bring us to everything dies. Which it would have with the Molecule Man bomb. Doom at least saved something. All the petty Illuminati/Avengers fighting would have left us with...well, what we have, unless Doom never interfered to begin with.

There would have been no time-table without Doom, or knowledge of what would have happened.

We would have had another 12 years of the Multiverse if Doom did nothing, because the Incursions wouldn't have happened and NA #1 would not have occurred. The MU would have gone a whole different way altogether.

[jackolover]

Although I'm happy with 1 & 2 so far, and looking forward to further revelations, the story so far feels too... terrestrial. Although Battleworld is a conglomeration of multiple universes, it still has an unenlightened Von Doom 616 at its center.

Fine. I love Doom & all that, but I was expecting something deeper, more cosmic. We're getting what looks like Emperor Doom minus a Purple Man. And that's fine, but it's still the same Doom that believes the path to peace & safety is the suppression of dissension. It looks like this is leading to an ordinary fight where the good guys will win, but on a larger energy scale.

Maybe I was expecting more of the ruminations of the original Mr B. in Secret Wars 2, about the meaning of existence, and whether he created all this chaos but forgot. Or Thanos/Starlin-style explanations of what's really going on.

Anyway, there may be something behind the scenes, that we're not aware of yet. Doom seems to be the prime mover behind Battleworld, but it's still possible that the Beyonders (or the original, allegedly less powerful Mr. B.) manipulated things to lead to this point. Another good vs evil battle maybe, but with more shades of grey.

Not complaining, Hickman - you're doing fine, thanks, I'm glad to be aboard. This just feels a little less cosmic, than I expected for a story that deals with the death & birth of universes.

In that Hickman interview, he states Battleworld isn't all it first seems to be. We haven't seen all the cards yet, and they come out progressively. So for mine, there is going to be deeper and more profound issues dealt with to come. We see the facade in issue #2. Other things start cropping up that make all our speculation of just these small bits of information just melt away when the real story comes out. So stay tuned.

[Von]

So it's a set up issue?

So no set up would be better then.

Just .. start in the middle and let everyone guess what all the character motivations are and what the plot points mean?

In the better serial comics: Every issue is a setup. AND stuff happens. It's possible to do both.

[jphamlore]

In that Hickman interview, he states Battleworld isn't all it first seems to be. We haven't seen all the cards yet, and they come out progressively. So for mine, there is going to be deeper and more profound issues dealt with to come. We see the facade in issue #2. Other things start cropping up that make all our speculation of just these small bits of information just melt away when the real story comes out. So stay tuned.

Battleworld seems so unstable in real time once Secret Wars #2 begins, I can't see it lasting more than a month. No matter how many Thors and other meta-humans assist, I have no idea why the Shield is capable of holding in check either of Ultrons, Zombies, or an Annihilation Wave. Aren't most of these beings capable of flying? Doesn't Ultron for example have a molecular rearranger that can turn parts of the Shield into, I don't know, water? Is there a copy of the Shield on the inverted underside of that part of Battleworld?

[Von]

Yeah, it's definitely not all his design since they've uncovered stuff that casts doubt on the age of the world.

Since their minds were somehow wiped, most of the characters believe that they've always been in that world.

The discovery they make below ground casts doubt on how old they believe the world to be.

This is why there is a sudden rush to close down the dig and cover it up. Before it can cast any doubt on the illusion
they rely on to keep power over Battleworld.

The actual age of the world: No doubt Doom - and all those whose minds survived the transition intact - they all
know how long the whole thing has been there. Which is probably not that long.

[jphamlore]

Since their minds were somehow wiped, most of the characters believe that they've always been in that world.

The discovery they make below ground casts doubt on how old they believe the world to be.

This is why there is a sudden rush to close down the dig and cover it up. Before it can cast any doubt on the illusion
they rely on to keep power over Battleworld.

The actual age of the world: No doubt Doom - and all those whose minds survived the transition intact - they all
know how long the whole thing has been there. Which is probably not that long.

I'm struggling to see how even with wiped minds or whatever that fiction is going to stop either of the Ultrons or the Zombies for long, both who have been shown to be incredibly ruthlessly adaptive. The Ultrons are even said in the book to be constantly improving.

[jackolover]

Battleworld seems so unstable in real time once Secret Wars #2 begins, I can't see it lasting more than a month. No matter how many Thors and other meta-humans assist, I have no idea why the Shield is capable of holding in check either of Ultrons, Zombies, or an Annihilation Wave. Aren't most of these beings capable of flying? Doesn't Ultron for example have a molecular rearranger that can turn parts of the Shield into, I don't know, water? Is there a copy of the Shield on the inverted underside of that part of Battleworld?

Yeah. It's being held together with lies to my mind. Nothing seems what it appears to be. Battleworld looks like wishful thinking.

[Darth Kal-el]

The real question is how long between issue one and two because the cabal mention being in stasis