SECRET WARS #2 Spoilers

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

I just love it when people jump the gun and declare it will automatically suck before the whole thing is finished. Doesn't everyone else?

Anyway, one thing I'm getting from this is how everyone that was not on that raft thingine is pretty much a warped version of their former self from the previous universe. Does go about explaining why they'll be doing certain stories during this whole thing where they're allowed to pull out all the stops and do whatever they want to do.

I love it too Xalfrea. I also agree with you that everyone not on the raft is a warped version.

To my understanding the following 616 characters are confirmed alive ;
616 Victor von Doom
616 Stephen Strange
616 Reed Richards
616 T'Challa
616 Hank McCoy I thought I saw a panel in SW # 1 where he is in a seat on the raft or am I wrong
616 Peter Parker
616 Jane Foster
616 Carol Danvers
616 Scott Summers
616 Peter Quill

I speculate that in the domain Manhattan Earth 616 the following 616 characters are alive;
616 Kamala Khan
616 Sam Alexander
616 Sam Wilson
616 Vision

Looking forward to reading articles that confirm this.

[Byakko]

What's really important is where all the reality warpers be at? Fixing reality is their biggest function. Where's adult Franklin at? And where's Wiccan been in all this?

[Anubhavkumarc]

What's really important is where all the reality warpers be at? Fixing reality is their biggest function. Where's adult Franklin at? And where's Wiccan been in all this?

Where's Scarlet Witch? Doom no more would do the job..

[Byakko]

Where's Scarlet Witch? Doom no more would do the job..

After Children's Crusade with that life force jazz, I'm assuming she's not nearly as powerful as before, or at least her powers are more localized. And both Franklin and Wiccan are a tier above even her at her peak, Wiccan's been outside the comic panels. Also I think everyone would be happier if she wasn't in charge of fixing reality this time.

[marcbret1987]

Agree on many things...

My guess is that #4 of Secret Wars will tell us that the Beyonders are controlling Doom...

No way Doom had the power to win a battle against the Beyonders... And Issue #5 has a note that say: Owen Reece died for our sins...

So, MM must have died to start the final incursion and the Beyonders must had take possession of Doom mind and create this Battleworld to their experiences...

Additionally, when wasn't "Secret Wars" a project from Beyonder(s)?

If this was all a "project" from Doom, this wouldn't be called Secret Wars... It would be called "House of Doom" or something like that

Very good point I actually wanted to add that the event so far could be perfectly called House of Doom but I guess there will be some sort of twist Your guess is probably a good one, although if the Beyonders wanted to destroy the Multiverse, why did they allow Doom to keep Battleworld? I guess this will eventually be explained.

[jackolover]

What a wonderful, whacky and weird book this is. But having just read it first time around my overall impression is how lovely it looks. Ribic would always have been my first choice for this anyway but he is knocking this out of the park.

His Old Man Thor is as weathered and age weary as ever. His Doom is brooding, watchful and coiled ready for action. His Thanos is a revelation. In the short glimpse that we have of him he has so much purpose and a sense or regality that has always been part of his character but has not often shown in the art.

For me, it isn't worth talking about the plot yet it's still too early to work out the shape of this thing. There are contradictions and problematical ideas on every page. I loved the structure and I especially liked the introduction with the Thors. And the Frank Herbert nod was nice. But, I need to go and digest this.

What was the Frank Herbert nod?

I feel like Doctor Strange retained his memories but maintains things as they are because he is the sort of person who would buy into Doom's kind of "order." He was with Doom when they disappeared into the white light. But, really, what is the alternative? Everything did die and, as Odin said, does the "truth" really matter?

I like this thought that "we are in this together. Nothing else survived, so let's make the best of it. After all, we were destroying Earths before this, so what's so bad about this"?

[ShaokhaN]

What was the Frank Herbert nod?

"God Emperor Doom" --> "God Emperor of Dune"

[NunoTaborda]

Very good point I actually wanted to add that the event so far could be perfectly called House of Doom but I guess there will be some sort of twist Your guess is probably a good one, although if the Beyonders wanted to destroy the Multiverse, why did they allow Doom to keep Battleworld? I guess this will eventually be explained.

I think this is still part of the experiment the Beyonders are doing to our reality...

Since Doom started created incursions before time, the Beyonders experience was ruined... This way, they had to compensate with something...

The way to compensate things was to created a new world called battleworld based on Doom memories (when they "captured" Doom between New Avengers #33 and Secret Wars #1)...

This way, the Beyonders can still continue with their experiences and no one remembers anything... Not Strange, not Sue, not Doom... No one... Besides the ones in the Rafts

The ones in the Raft are the ones that I think will create real problems to Battleworld... And will be the ones to reactive the true memories from the characters living in this new world...

No one can think that Doom was able to stop the Beyonders... He has less power then Thor Odinson and Hyperion together... Maybe through magic he had some change of hurting one or two but come on, everyone... Beyonders destroyed the Living Tribunal...

No one can surpass their powers... Our heroes had enough luck (and made enough sacrifices) just to destroy one and transform another into a tree...

So, if the Beyonders have powers above Strange, MM and Doom, then for sure they are still behind this all... Specially since Secret Wars #5 specifically says that MM had died... And we can see that Doom and Strange don't remember anything from the previous reality...

[jackolover]

Could reconcile that the Living Tribunals body be seen dead on the moon in NA #8 in Infinity, and alive berating Doom in FF#16 before Original Sin?

[jackolover]

"God Emperor Doom" --> "God Emperor of Dune"

Thanks 10 chars

[jphamlore]

I still think what the Beyonders wanted to do with their experiment to end the Multiverse was to create a naked singularity, only instead of learning the secrets of gravity as in Interstellar, they would have learned the secrets of time as a dimension.

[jackolover]

is interesting in that it does really fit an idea that Doom is indeed powerfull, more than he ever was, but much like the beyonders is not almighty. Not completely. He porbably has some fo their limitiations as well(can't travel to past, can't force people to do as he say, hence the need to a social construct that fit their personalities...fitting all the thors in a police corps is brilliant way to keep them in a wheel without them realizing it as example).Also i wonder is certain roles mean something more. Why he kepts the ghhost rider trapped in an Arena, as example. Their case is very peculiar.

So we are really sticking with Doom absorbed the Beyonders powers?

So from that premise, this Beyonder (in Dooms clothing) is creating a Battleworld to also pit mant heroes against difficult odds and the winner gets his wish fulfilled? It's a warped kind of contest doing it that way, but nevertheless effective.

I still think what the Beyonders wanted to do with their experiment to end the Multiverse was to create a naked singularity, only instead of learning the secrets of gravity as in Interstellar, they would have learned the secrets of time as a dimension.

Certainly the skewed mechanics of gravity demonstrated with the below surface discovery of a reversed world, shows some inexperience with the laws of the normal universe.

[jackolover]

The Tree of Life and the major role for Thors as enforcers may come from Hickman's previous depiction of the battle of the Multiversal Avengers versus the Beyonders. At the apparent cost of their own lives, Ex Nihilo and Abyss converted a Beyonder into a Tree of Life. Also as previously shown, the Unworthy Thor's hammer was also left behind at the planet(oid) where the Multiversal Avengers and Beyonders battled.

The Beyonders among other things refer to themselves as Dreamers. The Builders designed the Superflow to harness some of the powers of dreams back at the very beginning of Hickman's Avengers run. Thus it is not surprising that there may be an element of belief and worship to sustain the very existence of Battleworld.

I took "Infinity" and the many books that sprung from that (Hunt, TBolts, Av Academy, MA, SA, Superior SM, etc) as a dry run for Battleworld tie-ins. The Builders stood in for the Beyonders trying to destroy Earth.

And Evil Hyperion? He was standing in the crowd at the Doom hearing and judgement. Why didn't Doom just blow up Hyperion there and then?

[jackolover]

Soooo....what happened to the library of worlds and the swans?

There's one Swan who walked out of the Cabal Raft.

[jackolover]

Got to love the Frank Herbert reference in the title. Does it mean that, like Leto, his final path will be to deliberately relinquish control?

Hickmans storytelling has certainly got a dryness like Frank Herbert's, so if Hickman is celebrating Herbert here, there may be some similarities. I thought his storytelling has more heart in it for this Act 3, since he is going into world building the way he wants to do it. Hickmans Secret Warriors world building was this intriguing.

I honestly think that is the 616 val, sue and Franklin. There is no way doom would listen to any other sue storm than the 616 one. Also we should not assume the Thor in this issue is the 616 Thor. We have no idea how long this world has existed. They may all be loyal to doom because he saved them and created battle world. Also I think the general population has been brainwashed by doom to think this world always existed so there can be order. I don't think a house of m thing is happening here. Hickman is way too good a writer to do that.

On the subject of this Sue, I don't think she is the 616 Sue. She is too certain and contented in her role. This Sue looks like she has been a Monarch for a long time, not a regular member of the FF just taken a role for this story. That 616 Sue would have been highly emotional and temperamental. This one is comfortable with her role as the conscience of Doom, and though she knew a Braddock had to die in this, she had a detached air about her intervention. It almost came across like this Sue was the power behind the thrown. That Sue had plans within plans. (Maybe young Braddock was Sues secret lover, that sort of thing).

Well Secret Wars has turned into a new Alternative MU. This time it seems real that no time machine is going to change this with a simple trip back, because it was still inevitable that this would happen if nobody could destroy the Beyonders, and nobody can. So here we have the world that's left, after so many worlds had been strung together over 5 decades. A world that is going to be the interim stomping ground of the remainder of stories unfinished. Were the Marvel heroes tired and drained? I thought the MU had more stories in it still, but a certain pall began to form over everything in the later years, and we didn't have the happy-go-lucky atmosphere that should have accompanied victories in FI, AVX, AoU, Infinity, Original Sin, and Axis. One after the other, the heroes were stripped of their honor, till they hung tattered waiting for the guillotine to fall. I never saw the MU in a state like it was in TRO. At least this, in Battleworld, puts the heroes back in a place where they look like they have regained their integrity, albeit in the creeping realization there is a price to pay for regaining lost glory, as we saw with the way the Thors subjugated themselves to an unnatural worship of something alien in Doom. The facade that covers the whole lie that is Battleworld is going to be tested and pulled away to reveal a reality that nobody is ready for, and it will be nice if anybody has to face what they became in the 616 in the Last Days, after all this is over.