SECRET WARS #2 Spoilers

[klefmung]

I think non-Ultimate fans underestimate Ultimate Reed. He is really not to be trifled with. The only time he's really been flat out beaten is by an infinity stone. (albeit lodged in Tony Stark's Brain) Heck, he pretty much wiped out Western Europe, THEN wiped DC off the map and the only way they could stop him is when he extended the olive branch and said "I don't really want any more, so you don't mess with me and I won't mess with you." He was arguably as smart as 616 Reed BEFORE he locked himself away for 1000 years and enhanced his mental capability and built a basically unstoppable city. Ultimate Reed is at least cunning enough to take out the rest of the Cabal. I really think 616 Doom is the only person who will be able to stand up to him.

[ZNOP]

Did anyone read Guardians 3000 #8? These incursions now make sense to me after reading it...

[jackolover]

Thanos is worrisome, especially since he's the Big Bad of the MCU. Now's a good time for Marvel to push him.

And I'm a prominent proponent of the theory that Doom is running Battleworld while also fighting a losing battle against the Beyonders. What makes Thanos scary is that he knows Doom. Namor knows Doom, Maximus knows Doom. Ultimate Reed doesn't know Doom or any of them. He's the odd man out, and he's without his City and seemingly without his own people. Plus, if Doom knew what Ultimate Reed had done, he'd punish him.

I don't get that High Avalon is based on the Ultimate versions, but rather they're just some random version Doom picked up because they can maintain the order.

I don't see Doom as distracted by fighting Beyonders. I'm see a bored Doom sitting in a world that is boring now. Remember Maximus, when he at last sat on the Inhuman thrown? He was too bored to be involved in the day to day details. Doom is like Maximus. He can't be in a world where all the problems are solved, because there is no saving to be done by Doom. This negates all he lives for. Battleworld is a curse to Doom.

He probably didn't choose who to save. He salvaged the "chunks of reality" he could and fused them togheter. Some of those had the Ultrons, Zombies and Annihlation Wave so he later created the shield to keep them out. That's at least my theory.

I can't see why the Ultrons and Annihilation wave can't fly over the wall. Maybe the Ultrons just walk can't fly. But the bugs should all have wings.

[jphamlore]

I think Battleworld is inherently unstable and the Shield will fall before the end of Secret Wars #8. Imagine the Zombieverse virus set loose on a planet so densely inhabited by metahumans. The massacre would be unstoppable and unimaginable.

And it might not happen in Secret Wars but I stand by my prediction some writer will have the idea to have the Zombieverse virus become a computer virus and merge Ultron and Zombies.

I also think the Zombieverse would be the nightmare opponent for Ultimate Reed's Children of Tomorrow, the Children of Tomorrow preferring hand-to-hand combat with their knives. Although Ultimate Reed does have extensive experience battling the Zombies.

And now that I think about it, imagine if the Zombie virus infected the Annihilation Wave.

[dzub]

I think it's more about how he's reacting to them. He's far better at destroying worlds than anyone else, and he's just not as sorry about it as 616 Reed ever was. Now, you could argue that 616 Reed and Ultimate Reed basically did the same thing, and you would be right, but there was just something about the way Ultimate Reed sacrificed the Ultimate Universe that was...sickening.

He's Reed without the morals 616 Reed has.
far more ruthless than the 616 one.

i wonder if the council of reeds in F4/FF has got something to do with U Reed though

[jackolover]

I think Doom will be overthrown, The Cabal are the serpents that have entered into his Eden and they will eat away and destroy this Battleworld bringing disastrous consequences. I also don't think the Maker will survive very long in his relationship with Thanos.

I wont be surprised before this series ends if that wall comes down causing unforeseen chaos and death.

Are we certain Doom Doesn't know about the Cabal and Illuminati life rafts? Dr Strange is right there and could have told Doom, because Strange knows. Maybe Doom is banking for Thanos' involvement, and has this all planned out knowing Thanos and Reed-616 will be the fun of Battleworld, and he's just waited for them to show up?

A lot of people like to choose Magneto as a multi-faceted character but IMO that was done long ago with Doom and before Claremont began Magneto's rehabilitation. To be fair, Magneto did lack a back story which is something Lee and Kirby took care of with Doom by FF annual #2. Stan and Jack just didn't seem as interested in doing the same for Magneto.

Both men have been wronged by society. Both had a family that was taken away from them quite violently. Doom's origin was done at a time when mention of the Holocaust in a comic book would be highly unusual. After all, they still were mainly marketed to younger readers. But young Victor's origin was unusual in that is was a very sympathetic origin, more so than earlier one for the Mole Man who was also an outcast. Victor's family and tribe were persecuted simply because they were gypsies. When his father is taken away in a futile attempt to cure the baron's wife, Victor asks Boris why are they taking him away. Boris tells him "he is a gypsy, boy. It is the price we must pay"

Hickman had that great little monologue by Doom in that dinner scene with Namor back in NA #23. He does take on the responsibility of caring for all Latverians even though many of them probably had spurned his people prior to his reign. Magneto has slain people in the name of his cause and tends to look at all non-mutants negatively. Doom has not marched scores of Latverians off to gas chambers as a part of any purge. He only took vengeance against the baron who was responsible for his father's death. Of course, different writers have had different takes on how Doom relates to other Latverians. I think it's safe to say that Waid and Hickman don't see eye to eye on that one.

My god. Doom and Magneto could have had the same back story. They were both roaming gypsies in caravans weren't they?

[Rosebunse]

I think non-Ultimate fans underestimate Ultimate Reed. He is really not to be trifled with. The only time he's really been flat out beaten is by an infinity stone. (albeit lodged in Tony Stark's Brain) Heck, he pretty much wiped out Western Europe, THEN wiped DC off the map and the only way they could stop him is when he extended the olive branch and said "I don't really want any more, so you don't mess with me and I won't mess with you." He was arguably as smart as 616 Reed BEFORE he locked himself away for 1000 years and enhanced his mental capability and built a basically unstoppable city. Ultimate Reed is at least cunning enough to take out the rest of the Cabal. I really think 616 Doom is the only person who will be able to stand up to him.

But you have to remember, 616 fans are used to big giant threats. What made Ultimate Reed dangerous was that he was a 616 threat in the Ultimate universe. Now he's playing with characters who, given the time and preparation, could probably deal with him with little problem.

I think Battleworld is inherently unstable and the Shield will fall before the end of Secret Wars #8. Imagine the Zombieverse virus set loose on a planet so densely inhabited by metahumans. The massacre would be unstoppable and unimaginable.

And it might not happen in Secret Wars but I stand by my prediction some writer will have the idea to have the Zombieverse virus become a computer virus and merge Ultron and Zombies.

I also think the Zombieverse would be the nightmare opponent for Ultimate Reed's Children of Tomorrow, the Children of Tomorrow preferring hand-to-hand combat with their knives. Although Ultimate Reed does have extensive experience battling the Zombies.

And now that I think about it, imagine if the Zombie virus infected the Annihilation Wave.

I just...how would anyone win against this? Sure, we had Morbius's zombie vaccine, but that's gone and had the small chance of turning someone into a zombie. Without that or something, how the hell would anyone win against this? And Ultimate Reed got really lucky with the zombies the one time he fought them.

He's Reed without the morals 616 Reed has.
far more ruthless than the 616 one.

i wonder if the council of reeds in F4/FF has got something to do with U Reed though

I think the running theory is that 616 Reed is the only nonevil/amoral Reed in existence.

[klefmung]

Yes, but Ultimate Reed was a 616 level threat. But he has also dealt with many himself. Single handedly. Usually 616 heroes have support in the threats on a massive scale, but usually when that stuff comes up in 1610, Ultimate Reed licks it with basically no help. The first time Ultimate Gah-Lak-Tus came by, the rest of the Ultimate U was scrambling to take him out. Then Ultimate Reed came in and took him out alone. Same thing in Cataclysm, when Galactus and Gah-Lak-Tus merged. Ultimate Reed basically spent 5 minutes in 616 Reed's lab figuring out exactly what Galactus is and he managed to lick it with everyone else basically running the distraction game. Then, in Avengers we find out that Reed had actually been fighting the incursions by himself. No Illuminati or Cabal to help him. I think he's seen plenty to be able outsmart most every 616 hero, Doom notwithstanding.

Edit: He also might under-estimate Doom because his Doom is a massive disappointment.

[Drakeon]

Did anyone read Guardians 3000 #8? These incursions now make sense to me after reading it...

My store didnt get thier copies in so I have to wait until next week. What happened in the issue?

[jackolover]

Did anyone read Guardians 3000 #8? These incursions now make sense to me after reading it...

I did, but it was about Korvacs crazy plan to make the Multiverse perfect, using Geena Drake as a constant, (she's the only one in the Multiverse). But something happens and Time starts throwing everyone around to different eras. Then Korvac says it's not him, it's an Incursion. It doesn't really make sense of the Incursions. It just says time runs out, and there's nothing you can do.

[Sardorim]

I did, but it was about Korvacs crazy plan to make the Multiverse perfect, using Geena Drake as a constant, (she's the only one in the Multiverse). But something happens and Time starts throwing everyone around to different eras. Then Korvac says it's not him, it's an Incursion. It doesn't really make sense of the Incursions. It just says time runs out, and there's nothing you can do.

I doubt Geena Drake will stay constant.

Rachel was once "The only one" in the Multiverse, none like her and we all know that means nothing nowadays.

[RobinFan4880]

I doubt Geena Drake will stay constant.

Rachel was once "The only one" in the Multiverse, none like her and we all know that means nothing nowadays.

If every event spawns a new multiverse, then there should be thousands of Rachels.

[Sardorim]

If every event spawns a new multiverse, then there should be thousands of Rachels.

Yet Rachel's the only one like herself, at least that's what was canonically written.

[jphamlore]

I doubt Geena Drake will stay constant.

Rachel was once "The only one" in the Multiverse, none like her and we all know that means nothing nowadays.

Is my memory failing me, or did some Marvel comic indicate the aftermath of House of M, Wanda's "No more mutants!", had erased mutants from almost all of the Multiverse? How did that get repaired ...

[Sardorim]

Is my memory failing me, or did some Marvel comic indicate the aftermath of House of M, Wanda's "No more mutants!", had erased mutants from almost all of the Multiverse? How did that get repaired ...

Magic, I assume and Wanda's spell didn't affect all Mutants just a ton.