"Arrow" EP Talks Oliver & Ra's al Ghul's Epic Showdown, Season Four Villain

[CBR News]

Marc Guggenheim speaks with CBR about Ra's al Ghul's impact on Team Arrow and the Flash's crucial involvement in the season finale.


Full article here.

[Sousa]

I'm not sure I'm looking forward to Season 4 because Olicity doesn't look to be done with anytime soon and I'm really sick of it. The amount of screen time she's gotten is completely unwarranted and forced upon by her fans who want to be her. I loved the show but it gets so annoying the more often she's on it and the fact that they retcon stuff just for her annoys the hell out of me. The Oracle knockoff needs to be done for , we need Arrow to be less like a Batman clone and more like Oliver Queen/Green Arrow. I hope the finale is going to be good though but the season has definitely been a a bit of a let down, the stakes don't feel the same as they did in Season 1 and 2 . Maybe if they established the bio weapon was a threat earlier on give the rest of the season something to boil down to because while yes we knew Oliver had to stop Ra's at some point, we didn't know the end game until the very end of the season. We all knew he wasn't brainwashed or going to go through the whole transformation so them doing that kind of felt stupid. The characters just felt as if they weren't themselves this season , hopefully season 4 fixes that but we'll see

[marvelprince]

I'm not sure I'm looking forward to Season 4 because Olicity doesn't look to be done with anytime soon and I'm really sick of it. The amount of screen time she's gotten is completely unwarranted and forced upon by her fans who want to be her. I loved the show but it gets so annoying the more often she's on it and the fact that they retcon stuff just for her annoys the hell out of me. The Oracle knockoff needs to be done for , we need Arrow to be less like a Batman clone and more like Oliver Queen/Green Arrow. I hope the finale is going to be good though but the season has definitely been a a bit of a let down, the stakes don't feel the same as they did in Season 1 and 2 . Maybe if they established the bio weapon was a threat earlier on give the rest of the season something to boil down to because while yes we knew Oliver had to stop Ra's at some point, we didn't know the end game until the very end of the season. We all knew he wasn't brainwashed or going to go through the whole transformation so them doing that kind of felt stupid. The characters just felt as if they weren't themselves this season , hopefully season 4 fixes that but we'll see

I hate Olicity as well, but not Felicity herself. I just hate what the relationship itself is doing to the character. She's like a love struck child and the usefulness that she brings to the team in the show is far being outweighed by her crying for him every time she's on camera. Independently I love Felicity and Oliver, but together it does her character absolutely no favors at all.

[Hi there!]

The show needs a writer who can write human-sounding dialogue, and further, has the guts to set aside screen time to develop human-feeling characters that say things other than expository on how they feel and why.

The show needs to get away from all-intense-all-the-time Ollie. Ollie at this point is a non-character in his own show whose only emotion is "intensity". It's like he's trapped in 90's comics.

The show needs to stop relying on flashbacks as situational McGuffins. "A toad-man hybrid that uses a ray gun that runs on alfalfa? Just so happens I had an adventure with a toad-man hybrid one time..."

The show needs to stop addressing the relationships it relies on with Mad-libs-style interchangeable emotional connections. Seriously, the show needs to either stop being on the CW, or stop acting like its on the CW....that would make it immensely better.

[Bill]

I agree the show hasn't been as good this season too and honestly Flash has replaced Arrow as my favorite. Arrow has the same problem that Smallville had for most of it's run in that it feels more like a soap opera than it does an action show about a superhero protecting his city. The whole relationship stuff has really bogged the show down and pretty much came out of left field IMO. Oliver needs to mellow out too. Having anger is one thing but the dude is so intense to the point of absurdity. I do like the fact that he is outed now to everyone because by season 3, who didn't know he was the Arrow?

Hopefully they'll address the whole relationship stuff in the finale and set up Season 4s arc similar to season 2 with an emphasis more on story and less on relationships.

[Frontier]

Do I think season 3 has been as strong as season 2? No. Honestly, I think I was a lot more excited and anticipated to see how season 2 would conclude than I am for season 3, even if I'm really invested in seeing how things end for everyone and where going they'll be going into season 4.

That said, unlike others, I don't think season 3 has been a total failure of a season and there's been a lot of strong points and highlights for me. Some really awesome moments, some good progression and arcs for certain characters, great action sequences, and some really nice easter eggs. On the flipside, there have been some less than stellar moments and developments, stuff that strained even my very high ability to suspend my disbelief, and stuff that really could've been improved upon.

Just to get into specifics:

- I think Oliver and Felicity could make a cute couple, but the way their relationship has been handled over the season has definitely brought down the idea in my mind. Oliver not wanting to get into a relationship and keeping her at a distance I can buy, and using that as a source of drama, but coming back to it episode after episode is a little much. Not to mention Felicity's been at her best (and more like herself) with Ray, and when that relationship has been in focus, than she has been with Oliver (aside from maybe the first episode of S3 and when they finally gave into their feelings). I mean, I can understand some of the times she's been emotionally vulnerable over Oliver and the stuff going on, which has been pretty rough, but so much of it in one season and over several episodes isn't ideal. The relationship in a romantic sense definitely hasn't brought out the best in either character and I hope we can put it to rest by the end. Right now I'm honestly more interested in seeing Ollie and Laurel get back together than I am ever seeing Olicity brought back.

- Deadshot .

- Arsenal was awesome. I never thought we'd honestly get to see a full-on sidekick in the DCTVU, but we finally got to see Roy suit-up and kick butt with The Arrow. Roy's character arc this season, when it got focus, was also pretty good and this was the best he's been all series. I'm really going to miss him, but I'm glad he got to go out of the show on a high-note .

- Ra's and the League I'm iffy on. On the one hand, I think Matt Nable is great as Ra's and that for the most part the creators got him right. I'm ambivalent about their mixing comic Ra's with The Dark Knight trilogy idea of an inherited title, but it's interesting to say the least and we did get a Lazarus Pit out of it. But this motivations and what the League actually does for a living, and how ruthless, compassionate, or reasonable they are has been so inconsistent and ambiguous that I think it's hurt their portrayal and status as villains.

- Thea's arc was also pretty good, going from someone who was tired of being manipulated and beaten down to someone who of her own initiative becomes stronger...even if ultimately her world gets turned upside down even more than it had been before. And getting out of that and on her way to becoming a full-blown hero is always great to see.

- Iron ATOM...on the one hand, it's Ted Kord as Ray Palmer and it's Iron Man masquerading as The Atom, but Brandon Routh really sells it and Ray is a pretty fun and cool dude. So looking forward to seeing more of him in Legends.

- Wish we had seen more of Wildcat, but Ted was cool in all the scenes he had.

- Merlyn, God, Merlyn! I really like him as a character, he's interesting, well-acted and I liked getting to see more of his backstory, but I'm tired of him getting away with all the stuff he's done with no real or genuine comeuppance. He's a Supervillain and now he's practically become an extra member of Team Arrow even if he still betrays them, doesn't betray them, and effectively ruined their lives. The closest to a comeuppance he's gotten was Thea disowning him or Ra's torturing him after he'd been captured, but the former probably didn't effect him that much and Oliver got him out of the latter (which I'm still ambivalent as to whether he should have). I hope Merlyn goes back to full-on villainy for season 4 so we can see him square off against Oliver again and increase the likelihood that we'll see some payback for all he's done.

- Laurel becoming Black Canary was something I was always expecting, and I think the creators success in that point were...okay. For one it doesn't help that Laurel's skills are so inconsistent most of the time, when at first they were actually treating her semi-realistically as a vigilante with her lack of training until eventually she's taking on numerous League Assassins. That and some of her scenes with Team Arrow this season, though not all, have left a little to be desired. Here's hoping they get her right going into season 4.

- The Honk Kong Flashbacks have been okay, but definitely not as strong as the season 2 flashbacks. Just each segment per episode didn't have the same poignancy, strength, or interest as most of the flashbacks in season 2 did. I did grow to like the Yamashiro's, which made their presence in the present day scenes more meaningful, and I appreciated getting to see China White and Tommy again, as well as seeing just how bad Waller is, but I hope the creators have a better idea for where they want to go with the season 4 flashbacks.

- And did it have to come down to another terrorist attack on Starling to end the season?

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

Do I think season 3 has been as strong as season 2? No. Honestly, I think I was a lot more excited and anticipated to see how season 2 would conclude than I am for season 3, even if I'm really invested in seeing how things end for everyone and where going they'll be going into season 4.

That said, unlike others, I don't think season 3 has been a total failure of a season and there's been a lot of strong points and highlights for me. Some really awesome moments, some good progression and arcs for certain characters, great action sequences, and some really nice easter eggs. On the flipside, there have been some less than stellar moments and developments, stuff that strained even my very high ability to suspend my disbelief, and stuff that really could've been improved upon.

Just to get into specifics:

- I think Oliver and Felicity could make a cute couple, but the way their relationship has been handled over the season has definitely brought down the idea in my mind. Oliver not wanting to get into a relationship and keeping her at a distance I can buy, and using that as a source of drama, but coming back to it episode after episode is a little much. Not to mention Felicity's been at her best (and more like herself) with Ray, and when that relationship has been in focus, than she has been with Oliver (aside from maybe the first episode of S3 and when they finally gave into their feelings). I mean, I can understand some of the times she's been emotionally vulnerable over Oliver and the stuff going on, which has been pretty rough, but so much of it in one season and over several episodes isn't ideal. The relationship in a romantic sense definitely hasn't brought out the best in either character and I hope we can put it to rest by the end. Right now I'm honestly more interested in seeing Ollie and Laurel get back together than I am ever seeing Olicity brought back.

- Deadshot .

- Arsenal was awesome. I never thought we'd honestly get to see a full-on sidekick in the DCTVU, but we finally got to see Roy suit-up and kick butt with The Arrow. Roy's character arc this season, when it got focus, was also pretty good and this was the best he's been all series. I'm really going to miss him, but I'm glad he got to go out of the show on a high-note .

- Ra's and the League I'm iffy on. On the one hand, I think Matt Nable is great as Ra's and that for the most part the creators got him right. I'm ambivalent about their mixing comic Ra's with The Dark Knight trilogy idea of an inherited title, but it's interesting to say the least and we did get a Lazarus Pit out of it. But this motivations and what the League actually does for a living, and how ruthless, compassionate, or reasonable they are has been so inconsistent and ambiguous that I think it's hurt their portrayal and status as villains.

- Thea's arc was also pretty good, going from someone who was tired of being manipulated and beaten down to someone who of her own initiative becomes stronger...even if ultimately her world gets turned upside down even more than it had been before. And getting out of that and on her way to becoming a full-blown hero is always great to see.

- Iron ATOM...on the one hand, it's Ted Kord as Ray Palmer and it's Iron Man masquerading as The Atom, but Brandon Routh really sells it and Ray is a pretty fun and cool dude. So looking forward to seeing more of him in Legends.

- Wish we had seen more of Wildcat, but Ted was cool in all the scenes he had.

- Merlyn, God, Merlyn! I really like him as a character, he's interesting, well-acted and I liked getting to see more of his backstory, but I'm tired of him getting away with all the stuff he's done with no real or genuine comeuppance. He's a Supervillain and now he's practically become an extra member of Team Arrow even if he still betrays them, doesn't betray them, and effectively ruined their lives. The closest to a comeuppance he's gotten was Thea disowning him or Ra's torturing him after he'd been captured, but the former probably didn't effect him that much and Oliver got him out of the latter (which I'm still ambivalent as to whether he should have). I hope Merlyn goes back to full-on villainy for season 4 so we can see him square off against Oliver again and increase the likelihood that we'll see some payback for all he's done.

- Laurel becoming Black Canary was something I was always expecting, and I think the creators success in that point were...okay. For one it doesn't help that Laurel's skills are so inconsistent most of the time, when at first they were actually treating her semi-realistically as a vigilante with her lack of training until eventually she's taking on numerous League Assassins. That and some of her scenes with Team Arrow this season, though not all, have left a little to be desired. Here's hoping they get her right going into season 4.

- The Honk Kong Flashbacks have been okay, but definitely not as strong as the season 2 flashbacks. Just each segment per episode didn't have the same poignancy, strength, or interest as most of the flashbacks in season 2 did. I did grow to like the Yamashiro's, which made their presence in the present day scenes more meaningful, and I appreciated getting to see China White and Tommy again, as well as seeing just how bad Waller is, but I hope the creators have a better idea for where they want to go with the season 4 flashbacks.

- And did it have to come down to another terrorist attack on Starling to end the season?

did you want three tornados instead

[Yahnoos]

The show needs a writer who can write human-sounding dialogue, and further, has the guts to set aside screen time to develop human-feeling characters that say things other than expository on how they feel and why.

The show needs to get away from all-intense-all-the-time Ollie. Ollie at this point is a non-character in his own show whose only emotion is "intensity". It's like he's trapped in 90's comics.

The show needs to stop relying on flashbacks as situational McGuffins. "A toad-man hybrid that uses a ray gun that runs on alfalfa? Just so happens I had an adventure with a toad-man hybrid one time..."

The show needs to stop addressing the relationships it relies on with Mad-libs-style interchangeable emotional connections. Seriously, the show needs to either stop being on the CW, or stop acting like its on the CW....that would make it immensely better.

*********SPOILERS******************




Agree with all the points except blaming this on the CW. Flash is also on the CW and it's nowhere near the soap opera that Arrow is. Berlanti Productions need to do better. Series/season finale just continued the contrived/hack/comicbook melodrama. So, Ollie & Felicity earn retirement, but Diggle is supposed to stay and keep sacrificing? Merlyn is made Ra's over Nyssa? Thea/Speedy picks up Roy's mantle, with Roy still on the run? It's been one silly decision after the other for every sinle character. And while flash can get away with it, because it doesn't "take itself seriously", Arrow doesn't have that joy/popcorn feel. Hell, the best part of the finale was Barry's short stint.

[Anarchist]

Malcom really just needs to die already.

Him being the shows pet is so tidiously annoying by now.

[Mork74]

meh ending

so we have a weird timeline issue with flash as arrow seemed to go visit flash this week when was also fully a league man

anyway, the interrogation, said 3 days later and yet the shop door was still open. no customers ever came in or heard the soldier cry out. weird


more weird is that laurel is still in the show and still her mask doesnt fit her eyes, very stupid look and not something her sister did

olicity is getting boring, move on


season 4 needs to be stronger

[Jmacq1]

Malcom really just needs to die already.

Him being the shows pet is so tidiously annoying by now.

Love the actor, but yes, the character needs some serious comeuppance. I think the best thing they could possibly do is have Nyssa depose (but narrowly avoid killing) him in the first few minutes of the next season.

Because seriously, handing Merlyn the league is the most stupid thing ever, no matter what unspecified "bargain" Ollie made with him. By the time all was said and done, Ollie should have been well aware that giving the League to Nyssa would likely have been a FAR better option. Not to mention making for a nice character moment that could've solidified Nyssa as a friend and ally.

Though I'll grant, if they don't have Nyssa swiftly depose him, at least reveal that she and Ollie cooked up a long con and she's there to keep an eye on him and make sure he "holds up his end of the bargain" or whatever. Because I'm also kind of unclear as to why Nyssa went back at all! (Aside from the actress going to be on another show, I think?)

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

I wish they would have him on legends of the unknown rather than cold and heat

[chamber-music]

Not a fan of the Olicity stuff. I like the character of Felicity but I don't enjoy the unnecessary crying and unnatural overwrought drama that came from her coupling with Oliver this season.

Hopefully next season Oliver lightens up a little to move a little closer to his comic counterpart. Oliver Queen doesn't have to be intense and repressed all the time to be a dark urban vigilante. Daredevil still cracked one liners when he interacted with villains on his show.

[David Walton]

Felicity is a great character but Olicity is dragging the show down. How many times is Felicity going to cry because Oliver is willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good? Oliver makes more sense with pretty much every other female protagonist on the show.

[Hi there!]

Felicity is a great character but Olicity is dragging the show down. How many times is Felicity going to cry because Oliver is willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good? Oliver makes more sense with pretty much every other female protagonist on the show.

Agreed, although I'd say Oliver doesn't make sense with anyone...there's no character there to base a relationship on, just a "tough guy" trope and "will they/won't they" excuses to create heartache. Witness the entire, what, season and a half Oliver spent telling Felicity it wasn't okay to be close, because...why? All his enemies know where the Arrow-cave is, and Felicity is there every night. Their status up until the season finale was based on a half-hearted attempt to create teen drama using an old, tired trope about Ollie's concern for her safety, or getting too close for Ollie to really focus on being really, really intense at all times, or blowing their "will they won't they" card too early in the series. It's transparent and silly, and it makes the show worse. I don't know, based on the rest of the dialogue in the show, if they even CAN write a convincing human relationship, but I suspect it's that they want to slave the hero to all manner of "tough guy" trope in the hope it plays well with audiences.